DefensiveCarry Concealed Carry Forum - View Single Post

Jaystekan · January 13th, 2008, 10:39 PM

TI Carry,
Good point. I wasn't implying that anyone here is a sheep. I wasn't implying that by not going to the BBB that a person then becomes a sheep. I was simply saying that we are fast to label people as sheep and point out their shortcomings, yet we have trouble seeing shortcomings and wrongdoings in our own community. I more than understand a good craftsman is hard to come by. I understand that we want to support our own inside the gun culture and that forgiveness is a wonderful thing. My point is simply that forgiveness is good to a point.

There are many fine holster manufacturers out there, however there are a few that have problems. I won't mention names, but we know who they are. After reading this thread I have seen many many complaints and even some defensive posts by friends of the craftsmen. While the man himself may be a great guy, once an order with a business is placed, when does the man become a business? My dad told me once to never mix business and friendship.

At some point, unfulfilled promises have to come to an end. At some point if a situation isn't resolved, then it must be taken to a third party for resolution. My question is, when is that point reached? I agree the BBB doesn't want to hear that you got your refund after a year and a half. However I am sure they would like to hear "I have recieved promise after promise and have nothing to show, neither refund nor product." The majority of people here have not recieved anything but empty promises. The majority of people here have even expressed that they can no longer even get in touch with certain manufacturers. That is why the BBB is there. Saying the item is worth the 18 month wait is fine for some. Saying quality takes time is fine. Let's look at the big picture. If a holster maker is 150 orders behind, and charges $100.00 per order up front. Then that holster maker is $15000.00 behind on holster orders. 15 THOUSAND DOLLARS behind seems a bit excessive to just sit back and keep listening to false promises. Eventually a person has to say enough is enough and thats where the BBB comes into play. If Ford kept selling cars they keep promising but don't deliver, how long before people raising hell?

I have read many excuses from the holster makers about leather, supply problems, phone call interruptions, etc... It seems like these shortages affect only certain manufacturers. It also seems like even during these "supply problems" these same manufacturers continued to take orders. Why would a reputable manufacturer keep taking orders not knowing how they acquire the supplies to fill the orders taken, let alone complete old orders?

It may be coincidence that the one person that went to the BBB got their situation resolved (I doubt it was a coincidence though) while the majority of posters here, none of which went to the bbb, are still in perpetual limbo with their order and/or refund. I am not trying to hit on a holster maker, I am not trying to be a troublemaker. I am simply asking why people haven't gone this route. I have used the BBB for an order online that I waited 7 months for, the wife was having some custom made frame for something. I waited 7 months on a 30-day custom order. Finally after exchanging e-mails and getting the runaround, I went the bbb route. Had my item, signed apology note, and 30% refund within 4 weeks. Anyway, I just want to know when enough is enough with this.

January 13th, 2008, 10:39 PM	#106
Jaystekan Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NC Posts: 333	TI Carry, Good point. I wasn't implying that anyone here is a sheep. I wasn't implying that by not going to the BBB that a person then becomes a sheep. I was simply saying that we are fast to label people as sheep and point out their shortcomings, yet we have trouble seeing shortcomings and wrongdoings in our own community. I more than understand a good craftsman is hard to come by. I understand that we want to support our own inside the gun culture and that forgiveness is a wonderful thing. My point is simply that forgiveness is good to a point. There are many fine holster manufacturers out there, however there are a few that have problems. I won't mention names, but we know who they are. After reading this thread I have seen many many complaints and even some defensive posts by friends of the craftsmen. While the man himself may be a great guy, once an order with a business is placed, when does the man become a business? My dad told me once to never mix business and friendship. At some point, unfulfilled promises have to come to an end. At some point if a situation isn't resolved, then it must be taken to a third party for resolution. My question is, when is that point reached? I agree the BBB doesn't want to hear that you got your refund after a year and a half. However I am sure they would like to hear "I have recieved promise after promise and have nothing to show, neither refund nor product." The majority of people here have not recieved anything but empty promises. The majority of people here have even expressed that they can no longer even get in touch with certain manufacturers. That is why the BBB is there. Saying the item is worth the 18 month wait is fine for some. Saying quality takes time is fine. Let's look at the big picture. If a holster maker is 150 orders behind, and charges $100.00 per order up front. Then that holster maker is $15000.00 behind on holster orders. 15 THOUSAND DOLLARS behind seems a bit excessive to just sit back and keep listening to false promises. Eventually a person has to say enough is enough and thats where the BBB comes into play. If Ford kept selling cars they keep promising but don't deliver, how long before people raising hell? I have read many excuses from the holster makers about leather, supply problems, phone call interruptions, etc... It seems like these shortages affect only certain manufacturers. It also seems like even during these "supply problems" these same manufacturers continued to take orders. Why would a reputable manufacturer keep taking orders not knowing how they acquire the supplies to fill the orders taken, let alone complete old orders? It may be coincidence that the one person that went to the BBB got their situation resolved (I doubt it was a coincidence though) while the majority of posters here, none of which went to the bbb, are still in perpetual limbo with their order and/or refund. I am not trying to hit on a holster maker, I am not trying to be a troublemaker. I am simply asking why people haven't gone this route. I have used the BBB for an order online that I waited 7 months for, the wife was having some custom made frame for something. I waited 7 months on a 30-day custom order. Finally after exchanging e-mails and getting the runaround, I went the bbb route. Had my item, signed apology note, and 30% refund within 4 weeks. Anyway, I just want to know when enough is enough with this. __________________ The pen is mightier than the sword — unless you are in a swordfight!