DefensiveCarry Concealed Carry Forum - View Single Post

RobbW · January 14th, 2008, 05:09 PM

As to why I didn't cancel my order within the first 2 years:

The idea of contacting the BBB never even occurred to me. Maybe because the only posts I saw concerning Gary were positive, or because the order was internet/interstate or the (relatively) small money involved (compared to a car, for example).

As to why I didn't cancel my order: first, the only posts I saw spoke positively about him. I saw nothing indicating he was doing this to many others and still taking orders and charging upfront for them. This thread with its honest feedback had not been established.

Second, it was also an issue of sunk capital. I had so much time invested in my order, and Gary kept promising "it's 2 weeks out" "it's 1 week out" "it's ready for the acrylic dip this weekend" and I wanted to believe that I could get my order faster through him than by getting in the back of another holstermaker’s line.

In reality I was in the very back of Gary's line since my order was first, but I just couldn't bring myself to admit it. I also against hope that if I were polite, he would attend to my order. I NEVER contacted him by phone and only sent 4-6 emails per year (to save HIS time for holstermaking), and all of my emails were respectful and polite. The most up-front email I ever sent him I posted here just to be completely honest to all of you about my situation--but I really don't consider that email to be out of line--just a request to fill orders in the order in which they were taken.

Maybe most importantly, he promised me $200 worth of belts for mistreating me and trying to "buy" my silence. In the end, that amounted to another empty promise, since he canceled my order and thus never made good on that promise. But that definitely contributed to my willingness to wait nearly 2-1/2 years. In October (2007), when Gary was not longer responding to emails, DC helped me get one through to him. Gary promised to have my order finished by November 1, 2007. He never made good on that promise, either. Then in late December I sent him the email I posted here and he canceled my order.

Gary said he was over 600 orders down. Guestimating that an average order might be around $250 (mine was well over $300), that's roughly $150,000. That's a mortgage(!), and we know he recently moved from FL to TN. By his own admission he was spending his time unwisely--many hours spent moderating here, trying to start up Wilderness Belts, sell flashlights, and begin a training-camp businesses, not to mention that he kept taking orders all the time--taking more money from people. To me, that suggests the primary issue may have been financial, not time for making holsters. $150,000 is a lot of money, and a heck-of-an interest-free loan. THEN, as he makes "extra" holsters, he sells them to Coal Creek Armory for money instead of using them to fill previously paid for orders. He's taking twice the money on a single holster instead of just filling the original order. Unlike Eric, whom I have a lot of respect for, Gary never came clean and admitted what was up, or why the first 18 months of customers got shafted.

January 14th, 2008, 05:09 PM	#109
RobbW Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 119	As to why I didn't cancel my order within the first 2 years: The idea of contacting the BBB never even occurred to me. Maybe because the only posts I saw concerning Gary were positive, or because the order was internet/interstate or the (relatively) small money involved (compared to a car, for example). As to why I didn't cancel my order: first, the only posts I saw spoke positively about him. I saw nothing indicating he was doing this to many others and still taking orders and charging upfront for them. This thread with its honest feedback had not been established. Second, it was also an issue of sunk capital. I had so much time invested in my order, and Gary kept promising "it's 2 weeks out" "it's 1 week out" "it's ready for the acrylic dip this weekend" and I wanted to believe that I could get my order faster through him than by getting in the back of another holstermaker’s line. In reality I was in the very back of Gary's line since my order was first, but I just couldn't bring myself to admit it. I also against hope that if I were polite, he would attend to my order. I NEVER contacted him by phone and only sent 4-6 emails per year (to save HIS time for holstermaking), and all of my emails were respectful and polite. The most up-front email I ever sent him I posted here just to be completely honest to all of you about my situation--but I really don't consider that email to be out of line--just a request to fill orders in the order in which they were taken. Maybe most importantly, he promised me $200 worth of belts for mistreating me and trying to "buy" my silence. In the end, that amounted to another empty promise, since he canceled my order and thus never made good on that promise. But that definitely contributed to my willingness to wait nearly 2-1/2 years. In October (2007), when Gary was not longer responding to emails, DC helped me get one through to him. Gary promised to have my order finished by November 1, 2007. He never made good on that promise, either. Then in late December I sent him the email I posted here and he canceled my order. Gary said he was over 600 orders down. Guestimating that an average order might be around $250 (mine was well over $300), that's roughly $150,000. That's a mortgage(!), and we know he recently moved from FL to TN. By his own admission he was spending his time unwisely--many hours spent moderating here, trying to start up Wilderness Belts, sell flashlights, and begin a training-camp businesses, not to mention that he kept taking orders all the time--taking more money from people. To me, that suggests the primary issue may have been financial, not time for making holsters. $150,000 is a lot of money, and a heck-of-an interest-free loan. THEN, as he makes "extra" holsters, he sells them to Coal Creek Armory for money instead of using them to fill previously paid for orders. He's taking twice the money on a single holster instead of just filling the original order. Unlike Eric, whom I have a lot of respect for, Gary never came clean and admitted what was up, or why the first 18 months of customers got shafted.