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Originally Posted by mcp1810
Self Defense,
I don't want to sound like I am piling on, I am just trying to understand your position better. The State's Attorney from Lakawana County stated that under Pennsylvania law a person has the right to openly carry a firearm without identification and has the right to refuse to produce identification when an officer demands it. So how was the detention of the gentleman, and the seizure of the handgun justified?
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I don't know whether the detention and handgun seizure was justified. We have only one side of the story. I think prior to the police showing up there was no justification for detention or gun confiscation. It should be noted that the two are not separate events. If someone is taken into custody their gun will be taken.
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There was no evidence he had violated any law, and there is nothing stated to indicate the weapon was stolen property or evidence in any crime. Do you feel that LEO's have the legal authority to detain anyone who does not fully cooperate? Do you believe that LEO's can seize any property on a whim and hold it until you can prove ownership?
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To both questions, no I don't.
I support open carry. The patrons had every right to be there and they should have been left alone.
I think open carry invites negative scrutiny and potential confrontation.
I don't think police should arbitrarily confront someone and ask for identification.
I think police should be given significant lattitude in performing their jobs. Someone clearly called the police with a complaint that was deemed sufficiently serious to dispatch officers. It is not credible to believe that police would arrive and not investigate the situation.
I try to live my life being respectful, courteous, helpful and polite to whomever I meet, especially to those in authority (boss, parents, LEO, flight attendants...) I expect no less from others. You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. I think that simply cooperating with a simple request by the police would have defused the situation immediately. At a much less cost than the road chosen. Avoiding confrontation, especially while carrying a firearm, is something that we promote on this forum and it is a very valuable lesson.
I think the police were wrong for not maintaining their composure. I think the patrons were wrong for causing the police to lose their composure.
I think the patrons were right in that they were aware of the law. I think the officer(s) involved require better training regarding this particular statute.
I think pursuing this in any way other than speaking or writing to the captain is making a mountain from a molehill. No one was demonstrably damaged. There is no evidence of ongoing abuse by police against legal gun owners.
I have used at least three colorful idioms so I am putting this issue to bed...