Firearm safety... please read - Page 3

Reborn · October 5th, 2009, 07:59 AM

Sunday, October 04, 2009

Print ShareThisLAKELAND, Fla. — A Tampa couple and an Irish tourist were shot at a Lakeland gun range after a handgun accidentally fired.

Polk County sheriff's deputies say it's not entirely clear how many times Michael and Sherri Thourot's 9mm accidentally went off Saturday, or what caused the handgun to fire. The pistol was a Jennings make.

The man in an adjacent stall, 29-year-old Gary Flynn, of Ireland, was most seriously injured. He underwent surgery after being hit in the shoulder and throat, and was listed in stable condition.

Michael Thourot was shot in the left hand, and Sherri Thourot was hit in the left arm. Both were also listed in stable condition.

tbmccord · October 6th, 2009, 09:18 PM

Several people have posted since I last checked. I'll try to usm up all the questions posed.

I was simply amazed that the owner of this reloading company, without me even thinking about asking for it, offered to replace the gun. I have not tried to remove the bullet. I think the gun would still be safe to shoot but if he is going to replace it, all the better for safety.

People, this guy wants to keep his good reputation. He has proven to me that he is a great businessman that cares about his customers first and foremost. I will continue to buy from him because of his "just fix it" attitude. It would please me to a high degree to find out that he gets new customers from this forum because of this error and his willingness to make it right.

tbmccord · November 3rd, 2009, 11:27 AM

Just an update to this situation. I have not completely changed my mind, but I do now have reservations.

Aaron Collins made arrangements to meet me at the Saxet Gun show on October 17th. I called him on the morning of the 17th to find out that his plans had changed due to an issue beyond his control so he would have to reschedule. He told me that he would be at a gun show in San Antonio on the 31st of October so I made plans to go to San Antonio. On the 30th, I called him from my hotel room in San Antonio (went to the Notre Dame vs Washington State game since I was going to be there anyway) and his brother answered. His brother informed me that they were doing a show in Conroe Texas and wouldn't be going to San Antonio after all. After leaving a message with his brother, two voice mail messages, an e-mail message, and a fax, he finally called me back just now.

Now he is saying that they will be back in San Antonio on the 7th and he will make a trip up from San Antonio to Austin to complete this transaction. I will keep the group informed to let you know just how much Collins values their reputation. I know that Art Collins did. He was the founder and he passed away a few months back. His two boys now run the business. I hope not much has changed.

puffer · November 3rd, 2009, 02:27 PM

SQUIBS +

A year ago, I received a call from a prior student & sometimes fellow shooter. He asked me if I could come over & talk. He said he had had a problem on the range.He would not discuss it on the phone but sounded VERY SHOOK UP!

When I got there, He pointed to his S&W 686 laying on his cleaning table. He NERVOUSLY said "Jack, I (censored ) up."I forgot everything you taught me."

Here is the story -
He was at an indoor range with a friend.

==
1.His friend wanted to see how rapidly he could get off 6 rounds
2.He was wearing "double ear protection."
3.He was using "old ammo"

He proceeded to open up & managed to get off 5 rounds then the gun JAMMED.When he checked, he saw that a round was jammed between the cylinder & receiver. He put a cleaning rod down the barrel & discovered that there were other rounds still in the barrel.
OMG.

He told me, because of the double ears, he did not hear the rounds, & although he did "notice" the "lack of recoil, for "some reason it DID NOT REGISTER.

I took the gun to a good friend of mine, who is a retired "master Gunsmith. He agreed to check it out. 2 days later, he called & asked to come over.
Here was his comments =
In spite of his 40++ years this was a "challenge."
He said that it was only by GOD's GRACE, the quality of S&W & the fact all the rounds were "squibs", that this shooter was still in ONE PIECE.
There were 4 rounds STILL in the barrel & the 1 partly.
As you can see some of the rounds were actually "welded" The barrel held, but did have a slight bulge.

He also "test fired a few of the remaining rounds, & found SEVERAL were "still powerful ( about .38 light loads.)

The owner of the gun gave me the gun to use to TRAIN others.

PUFFER

tbmccord · November 3rd, 2009, 02:58 PM

I have news for Collins. As evidenced by this thread, I can be good advertising for a company or I can be bad. I teach NRA classes and can pass on the truth in every one of them. I hope they do not back out of what they agreed to.

QKShooter · November 3rd, 2009, 04:39 PM

Actually, if you are shooting rapid fire and pulling the trigger as fast as you can, you may never catch a squib in time.

So you should invest in a high quality, strong, firearm as well as good quality ammunition.

tbmccord · November 8th, 2009, 12:42 PM

Another update: Another missed appointment. Never heard from Collins yesterday. It is looking more and more like I will simply use this gun in my basic pistol classes and let every central Texas student know where not to buy ammunition. They started out being so forthright and honest. It saddens me to see this drag out so long.

I have purchased a replacement gun. I don't need Collins as much as he needs me to not spread the truth about his business practices. Shame on you Collins.

dukalmighty · November 8th, 2009, 03:12 PM

A squib load will not damage the gun,take a brass or wooden rod and tap the bullet out of the barrel,the only thing that will damage the gun is shooting a round after the barrel was plugged,I have had a few squibs in my early days of reloading,even factory ammo can get a squib,It is up to you to catch it and not fire the gun until the situation is remedied.When the guy offered to replace the gun without ever seeing it made me think it sounded kinda funny

F350 · November 8th, 2009, 03:43 PM

I worked for a small scale reloader MANY years ago and one of my "jobs" was to fire questionable rounds that were loaded around the point of a powder hopper running dry to get the brass.Quicker, easier and more fun than using a bullet puller. There were many underpowered rounds and more than a few squibs.

I always took along some primed cases with a dab of powder and tamped down with tissue paper to "blow" squibs out of the barrel. You only have trouble if you send another projectile down the barrel, a small "blank" powder charge works just fine.

F350 · November 8th, 2009, 03:43 PM

I worked for a small scale reloader MANY years ago and one of my "jobs" was to fire questionable rounds that were loaded around the point of a powder hopper running dry to get the brass.Quicker, easier and more fun than using a bullet puller. There were many underpowered rounds and more than a few squibs.

I always took along some primed cases with a dab of powder and tamped down with tissue paper to "blow" squibs out of the barrel. You only have trouble if you send another projectile down the barrel, a small "blank" powder charge works just fine.

October 5th, 2009, 07:59 AM	#21
Reborn Distinguished Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Rowlett, Texas Posts: 1,724	Three People Injured in Florida Gun Range Mishap Sunday, October 04, 2009 Print ShareThisLAKELAND, Fla. — A Tampa couple and an Irish tourist were shot at a Lakeland gun range after a handgun accidentally fired. Polk County sheriff's deputies say it's not entirely clear how many times Michael and Sherri Thourot's 9mm accidentally went off Saturday, or what caused the handgun to fire. The pistol was a Jennings make. The man in an adjacent stall, 29-year-old Gary Flynn, of Ireland, was most seriously injured. He underwent surgery after being hit in the shoulder and throat, and was listed in stable condition. Michael Thourot was shot in the left hand, and Sherri Thourot was hit in the left arm. Both were also listed in stable condition. __________________ Psalms 144:1 Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight. Senior Instructor for Tactical and Defensive of Texas http://www.tac-def-tx.com/ CHL INSTRUCTOR Retired LEO NRA member TCHA member

October 6th, 2009, 09:18 PM	#22
tbmccord Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Round Rock, Texas Posts: 177	Several people have posted since I last checked. I'll try to usm up all the questions posed. I was simply amazed that the owner of this reloading company, without me even thinking about asking for it, offered to replace the gun. I have not tried to remove the bullet. I think the gun would still be safe to shoot but if he is going to replace it, all the better for safety. People, this guy wants to keep his good reputation. He has proven to me that he is a great businessman that cares about his customers first and foremost. I will continue to buy from him because of his "just fix it" attitude. It would please me to a high degree to find out that he gets new customers from this forum because of this error and his willingness to make it right. __________________ NRA Instructor NRA Lifetime Member Project 1 Million: Texas Get Involved!

November 3rd, 2009, 11:27 AM	#23
tbmccord Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Round Rock, Texas Posts: 177	Just an update to this situation. I have not completely changed my mind, but I do now have reservations. Aaron Collins made arrangements to meet me at the Saxet Gun show on October 17th. I called him on the morning of the 17th to find out that his plans had changed due to an issue beyond his control so he would have to reschedule. He told me that he would be at a gun show in San Antonio on the 31st of October so I made plans to go to San Antonio. On the 30th, I called him from my hotel room in San Antonio (went to the Notre Dame vs Washington State game since I was going to be there anyway) and his brother answered. His brother informed me that they were doing a show in Conroe Texas and wouldn't be going to San Antonio after all. After leaving a message with his brother, two voice mail messages, an e-mail message, and a fax, he finally called me back just now. Now he is saying that they will be back in San Antonio on the 7th and he will make a trip up from San Antonio to Austin to complete this transaction. I will keep the group informed to let you know just how much Collins values their reputation. I know that Art Collins did. He was the founder and he passed away a few months back. His two boys now run the business. I hope not much has changed. __________________ NRA Instructor NRA Lifetime Member Project 1 Million: Texas Get Involved! Last edited by tbmccord; November 3rd, 2009 at 07:39 PM..

November 3rd, 2009, 02:58 PM	#25
tbmccord Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Round Rock, Texas Posts: 177	I have news for Collins. As evidenced by this thread, I can be good advertising for a company or I can be bad. I teach NRA classes and can pass on the truth in every one of them. I hope they do not back out of what they agreed to. __________________ NRA Instructor NRA Lifetime Member Project 1 Million: Texas Get Involved!

November 8th, 2009, 12:42 PM	#27
tbmccord Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Round Rock, Texas Posts: 177	Another update: Another missed appointment. Never heard from Collins yesterday. It is looking more and more like I will simply use this gun in my basic pistol classes and let every central Texas student know where not to buy ammunition. They started out being so forthright and honest. It saddens me to see this drag out so long. I have purchased a replacement gun. I don't need Collins as much as he needs me to not spread the truth about his business practices. Shame on you Collins. __________________ NRA Instructor NRA Lifetime Member Project 1 Million: Texas Get Involved!

November 3rd, 2009, 02:27 PM	#24
puffer Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Kent, WA Posts: 73	SQUIBS + A year ago, I received a call from a prior student & sometimes fellow shooter. He asked me if I could come over & talk. He said he had had a problem on the range.He would not discuss it on the phone but sounded VERY SHOOK UP! When I got there, He pointed to his S&W 686 laying on his cleaning table. He NERVOUSLY said "Jack, I (censored ) up."I forgot everything you taught me." Here is the story - He was at an indoor range with a friend. == 1.His friend wanted to see how rapidly he could get off 6 rounds 2.He was wearing "double ear protection." 3.He was using "old ammo" He proceeded to open up & managed to get off 5 rounds then the gun JAMMED.When he checked, he saw that a round was jammed between the cylinder & receiver. He put a cleaning rod down the barrel & discovered that there were other rounds still in the barrel. OMG. He told me, because of the double ears, he did not hear the rounds, & although he did "notice" the "lack of recoil, for "some reason it DID NOT REGISTER. I took the gun to a good friend of mine, who is a retired "master Gunsmith. He agreed to check it out. 2 days later, he called & asked to come over. Here was his comments = In spite of his 40++ years this was a "challenge." He said that it was only by GOD's GRACE, the quality of S&W & the fact all the rounds were "squibs", that this shooter was still in ONE PIECE. There were 4 rounds STILL in the barrel & the 1 partly. As you can see some of the rounds were actually "welded" The barrel held, but did have a slight bulge. He also "test fired a few of the remaining rounds, & found SEVERAL were "still powerful ( about .38 light loads.) The owner of the gun gave me the gun to use to TRAIN others. PUFFER

November 3rd, 2009, 04:39 PM	#26
QKShooter Assistant Administrator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Off Of The X Posts: 23,499	Actually, if you are shooting rapid fire and pulling the trigger as fast as you can, you may never catch a squib in time. So you should invest in a high quality, strong, firearm as well as good quality ammunition.

November 8th, 2009, 03:12 PM	#28
dukalmighty VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: texas Posts: 6,390	A squib load will not damage the gun,take a brass or wooden rod and tap the bullet out of the barrel,the only thing that will damage the gun is shooting a round after the barrel was plugged,I have had a few squibs in my early days of reloading,even factory ammo can get a squib,It is up to you to catch it and not fire the gun until the situation is remedied.When the guy offered to replace the gun without ever seeing it made me think it sounded kinda funny __________________ I like Poetry,Long Walks On The Beach,And Poking Dead Things With A Stick

November 8th, 2009, 03:43 PM	#29
F350 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Al Taqaddum airbase, Iraq Posts: 699	I worked for a small scale reloader MANY years ago and one of my "jobs" was to fire questionable rounds that were loaded around the point of a powder hopper running dry to get the brass.Quicker, easier and more fun than using a bullet puller. There were many underpowered rounds and more than a few squibs. I always took along some primed cases with a dab of powder and tamped down with tissue paper to "blow" squibs out of the barrel. You only have trouble if you send another projectile down the barrel, a small "blank" powder charge works just fine.

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