Mongoose

First let me tell you a little about myself. I started learning Judo in the 3rd grade and studied Karate during High School. I join the ARMY at 18 and did 21 years. Over those years I earn a 5th Degree black belt in Hapkido and two other lesser black belts. I also studied JKD concepts and know how to trap and infight. I have done some boxing while in the Army and trained in Stick and Knife fighting and have taught for years. I even gave classes when I was over in that BIG Sandbox. I do not teach anymore unless someone ask me.

After I retired from the Army I started working as a Corrections Deputy working in a jail (working on a 2nd retirement). While working in the jail I have been in my share of REAL knock um down type of fights and had a few bones broken. I was attacked once by a guy who was already severing over 70 years and he didn't have anything to lose if he killed me. He tried to kill me with his bare hands and darn near got me. I was on light duty for six months after that fight nursing my injuries.

I say all that to say simply this; do not get caught up with learning complicated moves. When the crap hits the fan the body and mind will go back to the VERY BASICS of your training. Learning arm bars and other locks are very good. But you will 85 % of the time never do them the way you were taught. Try and do a simply arm bar on someone who is very big and have large muscular arms (body). It isn’t going to work the way you were taught or read in a book (unless you find someone who knows what the real deal is). You will get you butt handed to you very fast trying to do what you have been looking at in a book or seen on a DVD. BUT, if you UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPTS of how and why the locks and bars are used and WHY they work, then you will become a much better fighter. In other words you may have to throw your shoulder, hip, or LEG in as a means to HELP you get the lock or bar. Stuff that MOST teachers won’t teach you, because they don’t know! This is because they never have been in a real fight!

So to answer your question you must look inside and answer these questions for me. Why do you want to learn locks and bars? Do you see yourself standing toe to toe and fighting until the end? Or do you really just want to protect yourself so that you can run away from the attack?

As I already mention when the crap hits the fan your body and mind WILL go to its BASIC knowledge and FIGHT! If you are well grounded in fighting and have muscle memory and the skills to really fight without thinking about it then your instinct will take over and your basics and skills will see you though.

But if your grounding basic is nothing more than watching a video or reading a book and MAYBE playing (practicing) with someone, you will fail in a REAL fight. With such limited muscle memory and little skills your body WILL GO TO ITS BASIC KNOWLEDGE. You will throw up your hands and arms and try to block the blows coming your way. You will scream and possibly fall down and panic in absolute fear! Believed me when I say that when there is someone REALLY trying to HURT you, you will FORGET 90% of what you thought you knew. It happens to me all the time, but I am well grounded in the basic knowledge of throws, Locks and bars and I do not think about what I am doing during a fight because my muscle memory takes over. But this took me years to develop and I don’t think that you want this level of achievement.

I have some suggestions on videos or DVDs to watch if you tell me what kind of fighter you really want to be. Do you see yourself as a Toe to Toe, blow for blow type of person or is it the self-protected hit and RUN type?

I mean no dis-respect in my post. I am only trying to help you in case you find yourself on the short end of the stick. The end with all the crap!

I knew another Deputy who got in a fight and was stomped over and over again by a person who had already killed two people by shooting them in the head. This Deputy had his neck broken by this guy. I don’t want something like this happening to you. It is one thing to con yourself into thinking that you can really fight (I see it all the time) and another KNOWING that you stand a fighting chance.


Mongoose

Cupcake

learned a couple of good techniques years ago from a video called (practiced with security coworkers), I think "Hand to Hand Combat for the Police Officer." They have been effective for me a couple times.

__________________
[Journalist is handed a rifle]
Journalist: I'm a non-combatant.
Sergeant Major: Ain't no such thing today.

uakaos

you can buy dvd's and read books but you will not get muscle memory that way. when in an intense situation you will revert to what you best know. so if put in a situation where you have to defend yourself you will not use anything you have seen or read.
your best bet is to join your local combat school. been in mma for 9 years and see new faces all the time.
even brazilian jujitsu is worth looking into.
i pay $105 per month but have seen people pay $45/month for a 1 day a week beginers class.
im more of an everyday guy.
good way to boost confidence

__________________
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it."

Hivoltage

OK.
1. I do not plan on fighting to the death every other day.
2. I do not get into fights every other day.
3. I do not plan on beinng able to kick ass on everybody.
4. I dont see how me wanting to read a book or watching a DVD will hurt me more than if I did nothing at all.

Maybe I started the thread out wrong, I want to learn some self defense moves, I just picked those items and for no particular reason. Watching Cage Fighting maybe

I appreciate all the advice and do consider it as help. Now that we know I just want to learn some self defense moves to maybe thwart off a punk or mugger, does this change the advice?

Any and all help is appreciated.

__________________
Nothing Wrong With Shooting as Long as the Right People Get Shot.
Clint Eastwood, Magnum Force, 1973

Mongoose

You asked about learning locks and bars which are the meat and potatoes of fighting. Usually when someone asks about learning how to fight other FIGHTERS will respond. A brotherhood if you will who offer their opinions out of respect for each other. We meant no harm only help.

The advise already given for learning Locks and bars for self defense is still advised for all the above mention reasons. BUT, if self-defense is what you want then the hit and run tactics is for you!

Believe it or not even the guys that fight on TV in those UFC and cage matches watch DVDs! They can pick up a move here and there. Heck, I do it myself because a person don’t have the time or MONEY to travel and train.

CLick on the below link.

TRS Direct - Self Defense - Personal Protection - Martial Arts - Street Fighting - Spec Ops - Delta Force - SEAL Team - SWAT Cops

Street Safe, simply and to the point! Just like Bruce would have wanted it. LOL

Plus you could also go to the Library and pay nothing to look at arm bars and locks.


Mongoose

fernset

I have studied several martial arts and wrestled in my life. I have always loved them but I will say most martial arts are incredibly ineffective in real life. Haikido and krav maga arre proven to be the best ways to go in terms of self defense, not sport... sport will not say your life. Key to self defense is neutralizing the threat long enough to get away or for good. I for one believe chokes are the easiest and best way to go.

Already knowing this are there any good DVDs of the above mentioned martial arts forms (Haikido & kravmaga)??? Suggestions??

Cthulhu

Do you mean Hapkido, or Aikido? There is a difference.

Krav Maga is more of a self-defense system than a martial art.

The effectiveness of ANY martial art has much more to do with the PRACTITIONER than the style itself, and much of that has to do with the quality of the INSTRUCTOR.

Do NOT take anyone's claim that martial arts are ineffective at face value. ALWAYS do your own research. Talk to instructors. Talk to students. Take advantage of any free class offers.

Regarding legitimate, established martial arts systems, any argument over one style over another may as well be an argument of one caliber over another.

And that way lies madness.

-JT

Redneck Repairs

Well way back when i was trained in koga , then ppct , and then i got the short straw and sparred with a fella who was kinda skilled in akido for a couple of years and we came to an agreement that i wouldnt shoot him if he did not put hands on me . I kid you not when there was a " bar riot " ( all the LE guys know what i mean ) his dept would stand at the door and send him in with officers following just to funnel arestees as he moved past them . He educated the heck out of me on arrest control and hand to hand , I educated him a bit on shooting .. It all worked out and he to his credit never broke me bad .
Point is physical fighting is not something you learn , much less learn from a book or dvd , it is something you live . For myself i am older , out of practice , out of wind , ect .. Ill do my best to create distance and not grapple . If push comes to shove well ill cheat then use my cane to get into the courtroom .

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Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

Lange

If you do go into submission fighting, a lot of times, you will end up doing Brazilian Jujitsu. Be careful...a lot of BJJ schools do not cover takedowns or strike defense.

While true, many fights go to ground, they usually start in neutral / standing. And if the fight is going to ground, don't you want to be the one who controls the manner is which it is brought to the ground (takedowns) or drop them to the ground (strikes)?

I'd look into some MMA stuff, keeping in mind that you cannot gouge or gang up on people, or use random things found...(I like martial arts for the sport BTW)

KenpoTex

If you want something quick, dirty, and effective I'd look at this set. I've seen it and McCann shows some great material (the striking portion is excellent) including some simple arm-bars and chokes. He also covers some good weapons defense stuff (gun disarms, knife defense, etc.). This is an excellent set. (you can probably find it on e-bay or amazon for less than what paladin charges)

If you can find somewhere to train, I'll agree with those that recommended some form of MMA training (boxing, wrestling, BJJ, etc.).

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If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

MOΛΩN ΛABÉ

Matt K.