One of the more interesting 1911s I've built - new pics page 5, post # 47 - Page 5

Tangle · December 21st, 2007, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joffe

With the very important difference that this doesn't disable any safeties, and thus doesn't come with lawyers attached.

I was set on the Answer despite the liability issues, but this is much better.

I seem to recall someone hinging up the grip safety with a new pin on the lower end, so that one would push it in on the upper part rather than the lower part. Am I just imagining things? If that were combined with this, I'd say it'd be the perfect 1911 grip safety for us 'skinny handed' high-thumb holding folks.

It is sad that we have come to be so much UIL - Under the Influence of Lawyers. It's a reality of our times unfortunately. Even if you're proven innocent in court, it costs a fortune.

I'm wondering if the pinning your thinking about on the lower end is the normal grip safety disable pinning???? If so, that pinning just holds the grip safety in the depressed position.

Tangle · December 21st, 2007, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OD

...this is John Browning's original design, it was called the M1910, he added the thumb safety and it became the M1911.

I wonder how he intended for the gun to be carried? Since it had no thumb safety, it could not be carried cocked and locked. So how was it supposed to be carried? Chambered and cocked? Chambered with hammer down? Unchambered?

joffe · December 21st, 2007, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tangle

It is sad that we have come to be so much UIL - Under the Influence of Lawyers. It's a reality of our times unfortunately. Even if you're proven innocent in court, it costs a fortune.

I'm wondering if the pinning your thinking about on the lower end is the normal grip safety disable pinning???? If so, that pinning just holds the grip safety in the depressed position.

I know about that, but it's not that - I seem to recall a picture of a custom jobbie that looked like a squeeze cocker because the grip safety went 'the other way'. Or maybe I'm just remembering the wierd squeeze cocker 1911 conversion.

In any case, would it be possible to add another pin in the lower area of the grip safety or will the mainspring/hammer strut/that there leaf spring thingy be occupying that area completely?

OD · December 21st, 2007, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tangle

I wonder how he intended for the gun to be carried? Since it had no thumb safety, it could not be carried cocked and locked. So how was it supposed to be carried? Chambered and cocked? Chambered with hammer down? Unchambered?

Good question. The pistol was designed for the military and not the civilian market, the military called for hammer down on and empty chamber.

Tangle · December 21st, 2007, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joffe

...In any case, would it be possible to add another pin in the lower area of the grip safety or will the mainspring/hammer strut/that there leaf spring thingy be occupying that area completely?

That's a good question. There's a little tab on the grip safety that contacts the top of the trigger bow and blocks the trigger. When the grip safety is depressed, the tab rotates upward and clears the trigger bow.

If the grip safety were pinned and pivoted from the bottom, the tab would rotate downward and stop on the trigger bow and block it 'harder' instead of clearing it. But that's not to say that the tab couldn't be modified to clear the bottom of the trigger bow.

A hole would have to be drilled in the frame to match a hole that would have to be drilled in the bottom of the grip safety, and that could be done too. A roll pin should stay in place and it appears the grips would cover the the hole. The leaf spring might even work with minor mods to it.

The grip safety upper pivot holes would have to be modified or removed because the thumb safety pin normally runs through the grip safety hole, but that wouldn't be much of a problem to fix.

Some consideration would probably have to be given to limiting travel, so the grip safety couldn't over travel.

The part I don't know of the top of my head is if there would be any interference with other internals due to the mod.

However, it would be a drastic change, tantamount to a safety re-design, which would have no track record, but still an intriguing idea.

One reason I went the direction I did, was so the grip safety would remain completely in tact and functional the way it was orginally designed.

Tangle · December 21st, 2007, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OD

Good question. The pistol was designed for the military and not the civilian market, the military called for hammer down on and empty chamber.

True, but I was thinking JMB was a civilian and it makes me wonder how the designer of the gun chose to carry it and why he saw no need to include the thumb safety until the military got involved.

Then it's interesting, when he designed the BHP, he did it just the opposite - thumb safety and no grip safety. Plus a mag safety was added. Of course we don't know how much of the BHP is really JMB's design since he died before it was complete and someone else finished the design.

Tangle · December 21st, 2007, 10:39 AM

BTW guys, did anyone notice in the pics in the OP, that the sharp corner on the butt of the grip (rear of the frame, at the bottom of the grip) was rounded some?

I had noticed the sharp edge on a 1911 dug into my hand at this point so I fixed that problem by radiusing the edge a bit.

Here are two more 1911s I built. If you notice the rear of the ejection port on the SS gun (upper gun), it's been significantly rounded and contoured. You can see the contrast of the SS gun with the hi cap version (lower gun) I didn't do the mod on. This mod enhances press checking. I noticed that the sharp edge and height of the ejection port could be better so I modified it as seen on the SS model.

BTW, to my relief, those 'scratches' on the SS slide are oil swipes rather than scratches. When I saw that in the pic, I panicked until I looked at the gun and realized they weren't scratches. Flashes do interesting things to objects sometimes.

P.S.
The lower gun is carbon steel "in the white". I haven't decided on a finish.

joffe · December 21st, 2007, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tangle

That's a good question. There's a little tab on the grip safety that contacts the top of the trigger bow and blocks the trigger. When the grip safety is depressed, the tab rotates upward and clears the trigger bow.

If the grip safety were pinned and pivoted from the bottom, the tab would rotate downward and stop on the trigger bow and block it 'harder' instead of clearing it. But that's not to say that the tab couldn't be modified to clear the bottom of the trigger bow.

A hole would have to be drilled in the frame to match a hole that would have to be drilled in the bottom of the grip safety, and that could be done too. A roll pin should stay in place and it appears the grips would cover the the hole. The leaf spring might even work with minor mods to it.

The grip safety upper pivot holes would have to be modified or removed because the thumb safety pin normally runs through the grip safety hole, but that wouldn't be much of a problem to fix.

Some consideration would probably have to be given to limiting travel, so the grip safety couldn't over travel.

The part I don't know of the top of my head is if there would be any interference with other internals due to the mod.

However, it would be a drastic change, tantamount to a safety re-design, which would have no track record, but still an intriguing idea.

One reason I went the direction I did, was so the grip safety would remain completely in tact and functional the way it was orginally designed.

I'm definitely going to look into it when I get a 1911 (if I have problems with grip safety activation). My hands are the size of those of a 10 year old girl so I suspect I will.

As a pointer to the size, I don't have your problem with the sharp MSH/frame bottom because my hand doesn't reach the bottom of the grip. I also can't fully depress the magazine release without shifting my grip.. and this is with CMC slim grips installed.

BOOM-STICK Holsters · December 21st, 2007, 11:13 AM

Beautiful guns. The double stack is really unique. What frame is that?

Tangle · December 21st, 2007, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOOM-STICK Holsters

Beautiful guns. The double stack is really unique. What frame is that?

Both are Caspian frames with mostly Wilson Combat internals.

Two caveats about the double stack - I bought the mags for it during the dreaded Clinton weapons ban and could only get 10 round mags. Two, the frame was so new that only a few mags were available and I had to put some dimples in the mags to tighten them up in the mag well and then they worked fine.

I plan to call Caspian, today as a matter of fact, and see if there are some hi cap mags available now. Don't know why I haven't already done that.

December 21st, 2007, 10:39 AM	#47
Tangle Senior Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chattanooga Posts: 5,982	BTW guys, did anyone notice in the pics in the OP, that the sharp corner on the butt of the grip (rear of the frame, at the bottom of the grip) was rounded some? I had noticed the sharp edge on a 1911 dug into my hand at this point so I fixed that problem by radiusing the edge a bit. Here are two more 1911s I built. If you notice the rear of the ejection port on the SS gun (upper gun), it's been significantly rounded and contoured. You can see the contrast of the SS gun with the hi cap version (lower gun) I didn't do the mod on. This mod enhances press checking. I noticed that the sharp edge and height of the ejection port could be better so I modified it as seen on the SS model. BTW, to my relief, those 'scratches' on the SS slide are oil swipes rather than scratches. When I saw that in the pic, I panicked until I looked at the gun and realized they weren't scratches. Flashes do interesting things to objects sometimes. P.S. The lower gun is carbon steel "in the white". I haven't decided on a finish. __________________ "Plans fail, things fail, people fail; but, fear never fails - it must be defeated." - by Tangle, a long time ago.

December 21st, 2007, 11:13 AM	#49
BOOM-STICK Holsters Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Southern Missouri Posts: 534	Beautiful guns. The double stack is really unique. What frame is that? __________________ Jeff Wright BOOM-STICK Holsters West Plains, Mo _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice Doggy' until you can find a big enough rock.

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