Firepower - for size and weight? - Page 5

F350 · October 26th, 2005, 11:00 AM

rfurtkamp-

Quote:

I'm not comfortable with 7+1 or 8+1 - and as I put it to a local doing the combat shoot thing, "If I drop my mag during your El Presidente stage with my 226 in 9mm, I'm throwing more ammo on the ground than you started with."

I hate the thought of dieing with an empty gun in my hand, so with my carry pieces I tend to go for the best of both worlds; Para-Ordnance P-14, 14 rounds of .45 and 2 spares; Glock 20, 16 rounds of 10mm and the spares have +2 floor plates. My medium duty piece is a Glock 19 with +2 floor plate gives 18 rounds in the gun and 2 spare G17 mags with +2 floor plates. Even my BUG/light duty piece is high capacity, though not readily reloadable, a Grendel P-10, 10 shot .380.
I have had 3 encounters with goblins in my life (one before I carried, which changed my whole mind set) and all 3 have involved multiple BGs. Just displaying the fact I was armed stopped the last 2 instantly, but just in case, I prefer having enough ammo to do the job.

rachilders · October 27th, 2005, 11:02 AM

I have about 40 handguns that I pick and choose from as the need changes. However, my personal favorites for CC are either a Bersa Ultra Compact 45 or 9 (usually the 45) or a Davis Derringer in 32ACP. The Davis is small enough to fit into a bathing suit if necessary, and while the caliber isn't the best and I only get two shots, it's better than throwing a stick! The Bersa holds either 13 rds (9mm) or 7 (45ACP) rounds, is fitted with a laser that was made for it and also came with a custom holster made to fit gun & laser. Below is a photo of the Bersa 45 and targets I fired at from 10 yards or so. One target was with the laser and one with factory sights. I had just installed a new barrel and you'll notice there is a shot on both targets that is low and to the left. That was the first shot fired at each target. I adjusted the sights/laser to center on the first shot and you can see all remaining shots are almost identical. It's good to know that the gun will hit point of aim whether using the laser of factory sights.

P95Carry · October 27th, 2005, 11:41 AM

Robert - looks to me like you have as good a result there as from any full size

rachilders · October 27th, 2005, 05:09 PM

Thanks. Most of my guns will shoot better than I can, though sometimes I do get lucky. One of the advantages of having a laser is it takes away a lot of the guesswork. If you sight it in properly, all you have to worry about is watching the target and seeing where the red dot lands. If you can't use the laser, there's always the factory sights. It also helps to visit the range once a week or so and fire off a box or two! I try to alternate between the different guns so I don't get use to handling just one and forget any "quirks" a particular weapon may have in a pinch. When you only have 2 or 3 guns it's not a problem, but when you have over 4 dozen like I do... well, my memory isn't what it use to be!

P95Carry · October 27th, 2005, 05:30 PM

While I do also chop and change between numerous platforms for practice at range - I have very much settled on the one prime now for carry - and that is what for sure gets max useage and practice.

I firmly believe in being adept at all likely platforms we may meet so as to be able to manage in an emergency but other side of the coin - the major one for me is - the ''beware the guy with but one gun''

The aim therefore is (within an individual's limits and skills) achieving the most fluent and therefore effective ability ... such that all operations and even just ''feel'' are totally ingrained and reflex.

I do like you, shoot alternating between irons and laser, with that switched off - using 226. I have to be careful tho, as was discussed with Tangle a while back - to not allow for any excessive reliance on the laser - keeping it strictly adjunctive. That usually means when light is low enough and I am ''mixing it'' with sights (not bright sun) that the first shot is iron sights and then it becomes evident (if evident) that the spot is there too - thus allowing for follow-ups using that even as primary sighting once seen.

DarthMuffin · October 27th, 2005, 07:31 PM

I wonder what the results would look like if someone were to mathematically analyze available handguns for "firepower"?

Something like (engergy * capacity) / Loaded_wt would give you a "bang for the ounce" figure. Use a common round such as Hydroshocks or Cor-Bons for the energy figure. My gut feeling is that something on the extreme ends of the "handgun" definition would come out on top, like either a Derringer or .500S&W.

BlueLion · October 27th, 2005, 08:01 PM

I decided to revisit this post because, like I said before I really love ol slabside but in my opinion good belt and holster or not I just don't find it practical for me. I can strap on the little 38 +P and feel comfortable and I know that all my shots will be center mass, but they will suffer at distance. If any of us ever have to find ourselves needing a fire arm it may be up close like outside. However, for house work I will use the 45 or soon to acquire shot gun. The 38 snub is just so easy to conceal and in regards to civilians it provides an element of surprise and tact. Most will never be in fire fight at the walk Wal-mart I think movies and the media gets us spooked.
P.S. stand and let me hit you with a round of 125gr. Speer +P Gold dots and let me know if my 38 is too small and I will change.

maclean3 · October 31st, 2005, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueLion

P.S. stand and let me hit you with a round of 125gr. Speer +P Gold dots and let me know if my 38 is too small and I will change.

I have pretty much the same opinion of my S&W 642 w/ 125gr. +P Golden Sabers - there may be better rounds out there but I don't hear anyone volunteering to take a couple to the chest.

If need be I've got an M66 with 125gr. .357mags. (note to self: buy leather for the 66).
Jack

srfl · October 31st, 2005, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AutoFan

I carry a Kahr 9mm (7+1 rounds) with a spare magazine, loaded with 124 grn Gold Dots. (SNIP)

I carry the same set up as my off-duty rig (Gold Dots too)...with a PM9 as a BUG.

oregonshooter · November 1st, 2005, 03:46 AM

Tangle said exactly how I feel on the matter. Plan for the worse and hope for the best! Why anyone would plan for the "average" (is there such a thing concerning a gunfight?) is beyond me. At this point in my training at least. I was an 8+1 1911 guy for years, but the more I trained dynamically the more the hi-cap 9mm made sense. Still does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tangle

Ahh shoot! I wanted to say that!

The more I train at schools, probably going to Blackwater next summer instead of Gunsite, the more I'm convinced that what will get me through the fight is what I've got in the gun. Oh yeah, I practice speed reloads, but from everything I can discover, it is highly unlikely that I'll need or have opportunity to reload in a gunfight.

I think there is however, a law comes into all this: "The fewer bullets in your gun the more likely you are to run out in a gunfight." That's perhaps trivial, but one of my laws of self-defense.

An unsubstantiated hypothesis: "If you run out of ammo before the gunfight is over, the caliber of the bullets you ran out of probably won't much matter."

October 27th, 2005, 11:41 AM	#43
P95Carry Assistant Administrator Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South West PA Posts: 25,366	Robert - looks to me like you have as good a result there as from any full size __________________ Chris - P95 NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member. "To own a gun and assume that you are armed is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!." If a BG dies as the result of pointing a gun at me, then he has merely succumbed to an occupational hazard of being a thug

October 27th, 2005, 05:09 PM	#44
rachilders Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Longview, TX Posts: 696	Thanks. Most of my guns will shoot better than I can, though sometimes I do get lucky. One of the advantages of having a laser is it takes away a lot of the guesswork. If you sight it in properly, all you have to worry about is watching the target and seeing where the red dot lands. If you can't use the laser, there's always the factory sights. It also helps to visit the range once a week or so and fire off a box or two! I try to alternate between the different guns so I don't get use to handling just one and forget any "quirks" a particular weapon may have in a pinch. When you only have 2 or 3 guns it's not a problem, but when you have over 4 dozen like I do... well, my memory isn't what it use to be! __________________ "... Americans. We're homesteaders, we want a safe home, to keep the money we make, and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane

October 27th, 2005, 05:30 PM	#45
P95Carry Assistant Administrator Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South West PA Posts: 25,366	While I do also chop and change between numerous platforms for practice at range - I have very much settled on the one prime now for carry - and that is what for sure gets max useage and practice. I firmly believe in being adept at all likely platforms we may meet so as to be able to manage in an emergency but other side of the coin - the major one for me is - the ''beware the guy with but one gun'' The aim therefore is (within an individual's limits and skills) achieving the most fluent and therefore effective ability ... such that all operations and even just ''feel'' are totally ingrained and reflex. I do like you, shoot alternating between irons and laser, with that switched off - using 226. I have to be careful tho, as was discussed with Tangle a while back - to not allow for any excessive reliance on the laser - keeping it strictly adjunctive. That usually means when light is low enough and I am ''mixing it'' with sights (not bright sun) that the first shot is iron sights and then it becomes evident (if evident) that the spot is there too - thus allowing for follow-ups using that even as primary sighting once seen. __________________ Chris - P95 NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member. "To own a gun and assume that you are armed is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!." If a BG dies as the result of pointing a gun at me, then he has merely succumbed to an occupational hazard of being a thug

October 27th, 2005, 07:31 PM	#46
DarthMuffin Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 87	Firepower I wonder what the results would look like if someone were to mathematically analyze available handguns for "firepower"? Something like (engergy * capacity) / Loaded_wt would give you a "bang for the ounce" figure. Use a common round such as Hydroshocks or Cor-Bons for the energy figure. My gut feeling is that something on the extreme ends of the "handgun" definition would come out on top, like either a Derringer or .500S&W.

October 27th, 2005, 08:01 PM	#47
BlueLion Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: It Changes... Posts: 823	I decided to revisit this post because, like I said before I really love ol slabside but in my opinion good belt and holster or not I just don't find it practical for me. I can strap on the little 38 +P and feel comfortable and I know that all my shots will be center mass, but they will suffer at distance. If any of us ever have to find ourselves needing a fire arm it may be up close like outside. However, for house work I will use the 45 or soon to acquire shot gun. The 38 snub is just so easy to conceal and in regards to civilians it provides an element of surprise and tact. Most will never be in fire fight at the walk Wal-mart I think movies and the media gets us spooked. P.S. stand and let me hit you with a round of 125gr. Speer +P Gold dots and let me know if my 38 is too small and I will change. __________________ Listen, Think and React.....Nuff Said.....

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