ccw9mm

RANGE REPORT #19 for the CZ P-01 9mm

April 5, 2008

Last post was for Range Report #9, so it has been awhile. Long hiatus, the past year. Have been dealing with some health issues (bum hip/leg). Went to the range a number of times, but each session was short-lived and didn't hold much excitement, either in terms of the few magazines' worth or issues of any sort.

Until today, that is. In short ... Houston: we have a problem. Probably a broken part in the trigger/hammer linkage, somewhere, but I won't know until my gunsmith has reviewed.

Reliability -- Well, nutz. Total rounds fired prior to today was up to 3700, given another 10 range sessions over the past year. Not many rounds fired, but it has so far maintained perfect functionality across the year. Since purchase in July of 2006, including today, the tally is as follows: eleven (11) failures in 3756 rounds, for a 99.71% reliability rate, but that means six outright failures in 56 rounds today.

That doesn't include the worst problem: the flat failure of the trigger/hammer connection to operate. It's a DA/SA pistol. But basically, when the trigger is pulled, the hammer doesn't move. Oops. Not good. See below.

• Goal Today -- A light day of shooting. Intention was to put a dozen magazines through, plus having a friend kick the tires for feel and ergonomics. A died-in-the-wool Glock shooter, so there's no risk there. Ha! Crummy weather, so the focus is on basic accuracy and just enjoying the shoot.
  
• Initial Cleaning -- Full field strip and clean with CLP Break-Free. Fully stripped and cleaned all magazines, which slicked up the followers nicely (though they still need replacing). Spent a long time cleaning out every nook and cranny. Hosed it down with aerosol CLP, as well. Nicely wiped down, then re-lubed where appropriate. Smooooooth.
  
• Shots -- 56 attempted shots, with 50 fired and 6 failures to fire. Went up to 100 pulls of the trigger, noting another ~40 failures of the trigger to move the hammer properly. Not good. All rounds were Remington UMC (yellow box) JHP 115gr.
  
• Trigger Action -- While smooth, for whatever reason the trigger decided, today, to divorce itself from the hammer. Strange. Let's see if I can explain:
  
  • Basic problem: trigger often does not move the hammer. Occurs irrespective of magazine, type of bullets, whether at half-cock or full-cock.
  • At first, I had to do a double-take, as I wasn't certain that I saw what I had just seen. Yes, it happened. Then, again and again. It's easily repeated. I spent 20mins cycling through the variations, in disbelief.
  • Situation: Magazine loaded with 14 rds. Cycle slide, to chamber the first round, at which point the hammer is cocked. Either drop the hammer to half-cock via the decocker, or leave the hammer at full-cock. Pull the trigger in an attempt to fire the chambered round.
  • Symptoms:
    1. With nearly every pull of the trigger, it fails to correctly engage the hammer.
    2. Occasionally, a pull of the trigger causes the hammer to move from full-cock to half-cock.
    3. Occasionally, a trigger pull will cause the half-cocked hammer to fully fall.
    4. In a situation where the trigger fails to engage several times in a row, it's possible to keep cycling the trigger a dozen times without actually engaging the hammer, when at a random time the hammer will engage and fire the chambered bullet.
    5. No apparent difference in "catching" the hammer based on pulling the trigger a bit differently, slow/fast, pulling it slightly to one side, etc.
    6. Being a DA/SA pistol, the first pull of the trigger should, at times when the hammer is fully dropped, or at half-cock, fully engage the hammer and fire the chambered round. It no longer reliably does this.
    7. Being a DA/SA pistol, the SA pull of the trigger should, whenever the hammer is fully cocked, fully release the hammer such that the hammer fully falls and fires the chambered round. It no longer reliably does this.
    8. It's the strangest thing I've seen. It feels as though the linkages in the frame are all moving smoothly. It feels like the linkages are somehow not catching on the hammer. I'm not speaking of the sear's "release" point, which might explain why a hammer would release at far too low of a trigger weight. But this is 100% failure to engage, at times when it fails, with a random engagement once it does decide to "catch." Strange.
• Ejection -- These babies could put out an eye at 2yds, still. Reliable, strong ejection such that all cases landed within a ~1' circle on the ground. Nice to see that the springs are all healthy and strong.
  
• Cycling -- Perfect and smooth ... uh, except where the trigger/hammer problem happened.
  
• Aim -- Getting better. Easily able to do mid-speed 3" groupings at 7-10yds. Easily able to stay within a hand's span when cranking up the speed. Am getting used to the sights and smoothness, with each session. I still need to aim a bit low and left, at the shorter distances. It's dialed into 25yds zero, hence shorter requires shooting a bit low. The issues with aiming left do, after all, appear to be flinching the trigger work (dang it!).
  
• Jams/failures -- 11 failures to fire over 56 rounds attempted, then another ~40 failures to cock/drop the hammer during repeated testing. That's ... uh ... well, pretty darned bad. Something broke or is disastrously wrong. No can use, now.
  
• Reliability -- Sucks badly, today. Something broke, methinks. Have contacted the gunsmith and am awaiting a reply. Likely, won't know anything until he's had the opportunity to tear into it, to find the damage.

I don't know enough about the internals of the CZ P-01, in terms of how the trigger/hammer linkages and springs work together. Something isn't right. I am hoping it's simply a broken spring or small part. Up to today, the gun has been nearly perfect. Good enough to bet my life on. Any gun can have a problem. I'm betting it's a simple hardware failure of a part. Disconcerting, since I had begun to think this gun had a big, red "S" tatooed inside the magazine well.

No photos, today. It was raining and fairly cold, which nearly turned a friend into a Pop-Sicle. Much enjoyed sitting down to a hot latte, afterwards, to think through the events with the P-01.

More soon, once the problem is found.

EDIT: I can repeatedly get the trigger to fail to engage. Sitting doing "dry-fire" exercises, the trigger feels like it's supposed to catch on something, but then doesn't. It's not the same feeling as when a sear has been given too much stone. It feels as though a linkage has broken, somewhere, and is failing to engage. Though, I am wholly unfamiliar with the internals of that assy on the P-01. Viewed from the rear of the slide, you can see a pull of the trigger moving the little gizmos just to the right of the firing pin surface, but the hammer won't move. Fiddle with it enough, then at some point the hammer will engage once or twice. But then it's soon back to the original problem: failure to "catch." Go figure. I'm at a loss.

__________________
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
Reports: CZ P01 pt1, pt2.
Thoughts: Justifiable self defense.
Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
Tip: Use the <search> feature.

ExactlyMyPoint

Let's be accurate, he was turned into a frozen cucumber.

__________________
- Let me explain. No. There is too much. Let me summarize.
- Doing my part to create a huge carbon footprint
- Be still, and know that I am God; Psalms 46:10
- You are God and that's just the way it is

ccw9mm

I say Pop-Sickle ... you say cucumber. The white fingers were a dead giveaway, I'll grant you that. Warmed up yet?

__________________
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
Reports: CZ P01 pt1, pt2.
Thoughts: Justifiable self defense.
Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
Tip: Use the <search> feature.

archer51

As an owner and carrier of both a P-06 and P-01 I look forward to seeing what the gunsmith says. Please keep us posted.

jongle

I'm with archer: I also carry a P 01 and would like to know what caused the trigger problem. Could the folks at CZ offer any help?

Moondo

If you have any questions regarding a CZ, Mr. Angus Hobdell is your guy... Welcome to the Ghost Holster Experience

ccw9mm

Am still waiting to get it reviewed by the gunsmith. Unknown cause(s), at this point. Once the problem has been found, I will come back to update this thread.

__________________
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
Reports: CZ P01 pt1, pt2.
Thoughts: Justifiable self defense.
Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
Tip: Use the <search> feature.

ccw9mm

The problem appears to have been identified. (See above.)

Apparently, it was simply a loose screw. Not me, no. Internally, in the area that holds both the magazine release spring and the trigger bar that drives the hammer. After a simple tightening, it went back to it's same, old, great reliability.

Angus Hobdell's got it in his mitts, right now, so he's giving it a thorough going over. I've asked about how to avoid such things in the future, what precautions to take, etc. Hopefully it'll be wrapped up soon without anything else being found. It would break my heart if some real damage were found.

More soon ...

__________________
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
Reports: CZ P01 pt1, pt2.
Thoughts: Justifiable self defense.
Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
Tip: Use the <search> feature.

ExactlyMyPoint

Does that mean the next time we go to the range, I can shoot it for real??

__________________
- Let me explain. No. There is too much. Let me summarize.
- Doing my part to create a huge carbon footprint
- Be still, and know that I am God; Psalms 46:10
- You are God and that's just the way it is

ccw9mm

You never know.

It's still at the gunsmith, so we'll see how it goes. Whatever needs fixing will get fixed, so it should be in great shape when it comes back. Unknown when that will be, but it shouldn't be too much longer.

Tell you what: if you bring your son and that brand spankin' new Beretta, then I'm sure we'll be able to arrange something.

In plain terms with can both understand ...

case b92fs:

brought: czp01=true.
forgotten: if asknicely then czp01=true else czp01=false.
refused: czp01=false; akzkm=false; 870pUSSS=false; m1carbine=false.
otherwise: dunno=true.

endcase.

__________________
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
Reports: CZ P01 pt1, pt2.
Thoughts: Justifiable self defense.
Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
Tip: Use the <search> feature.