Tangle

I bought my Beretta 92G Vertec from Langdon Tactical Technologies before Ernst went to work for S&W. I had him put in his "carry" trigger package consisting of a limited overtravel trigger, smoothed action and slightly lightened. It's a dream to shoot, but the DA trigger is still around 8 pounds and the SA around 4.5 pounds.

I sent my Sig 226R to Sigarms and had them do a carry trigger job consisting of smoothing and lightening trigger is around 8# DA, 4.5# SA.

I sent my XD Bitone to Springfield armory for their carry package consisting of lightening the trigger, decreasing overtravel and of course smoothing it. Trigger pull is about 4.5#

But many feel that any trigger action mods expose one to unecessary legal risks should the modified gun be used in a justified shooting.

I know we aren't attorney's but we still know things, so what do you guys think about trigger mods on carry guns?

Erich

I am an attorney. I've been a prosecutor and am now an appellate criminal defense lawyer. I've never worked seriously in the civil arena.

Sure, anything can turn out to be a liability in court. A lot of juries have idiots on them, and a lot of civil lawyers are jerks who will bring suit on behalf of wrong-minded people without really thinking things through. No one can tell anyone how things will turn out in court.

I have had trigger work done on some of my guns, though, and my explanation would be, "This work was done in order to make my gun safer by making it more fit for accurate shooting, so that I wouldn't hit anything that I wasn't intending to hit. I had this trigger work done so that I could be more safe - I think all gun owners should be similarly responsible in ensuring their weapons function with precision."

Anyway, I've been doing this for over a dozen years (and I've worked on dozens and dozens of shooting cases, certainly over 100 - although not all of these were fatals), and I've never seen it come up in the criminal arena.

san antone rr

Some mention of that here:
http://www.combatcarry.com/vbulletin...ead.php?t=4717

__________________
Steve


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Bud White

Thats pretty much what i have heard plus as long as mods are for better shootabilty and for safety beavertail grip or extended thumbsafety you should be ok


Where youll get into trouble is Pinning the grip safety on a 1911 or something like that where your disableing it

Rob72

"Do-it-yourself" would be much more of an issue, than factory specc'd, or professional smith alterations (with receipts!).

duckhunter

My take on it is that perception is reality. A lot of potential jurors are either afraid of or just plain dislike big black scary-looking guns. I don't want to give these folks the perception that I'm a maniac looking to carve another notch in the grips of my custom compensated, lasermax, surelight, forend grip, holo sight G17 with the bayonet lug welded on the extended barrel and a 30 rd mag full of black talons. Just me here, but that's not the kind of fodder I want to give to a bleeding heart looking to make a political statement at my expense. I'll also leave my "born to kill" t-shirt at home on court day.

So an unnecessarily long answer to a great question... I'm comfortable with the trigger/action jobs on some of my pistols, but too far beyond that and I think you open yourself up for possible grief.


[on edit] I don't actually have a gun like this, or even a G19. Just a worst-case "for instance..." If you do have one, please post a pic, because I'm dying to see that sucker!! dh

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"Speed is fine, but accuracy is final." - Bill Jordan

Bud White

Trigger Jobs and Night Sights if you prefer them i ment to add to the other post.. I think the Bayonet mount might not be a good thing

P95Carry

Frequently two ways to review some mods - ours, the ''makes it shoot better'' and theirs - ''but it's been made unsafe''!!

One of the more contentious mods is possibly the mag safety being removed from a BHP - but in fact as Erich's most useful post says - most mods can readily be explained by actually making the gun safer to use.

It's all a question of perspective.

__________________
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."

If a BG dies as the result of pointing a gun at me, then he has merely succumbed to an occupational hazard of being a thug

Tangle

Erich,
Two things, "...anything can turn out to be a liability in court." How true. And, "I've never seen it come up in the criminal arena.", however most concerns about mods are not in the criminal court but in civil suits.

Then, "This work was done in order to make my gun safer by making it more fit for accurate shooting, so that I wouldn't hit anything that I wasn't intending to hit. I had this trigger work done so that I could be more safe - I think all gun owners should be similarly responsible in ensuring their weapons function with precision."

If I were an attorney needing to refute this, I think I would ask why you need this but police agencies all over the nation use this gun without these mods. If it's good enough and safe enough for them how come you need to be different? And, if these are such good mods, how come the factory doesn't make them that way to start with?

TonySoprano

I have seen some of this come up in civil court as far as criminal court I haven't seen it. But this was back in the 80s and early 90s. When I was going thru civil court action my actions were question alot and training that I had done and gone thru were brought up. As far as gun mods the only thing that was brought up was "did I cock the hammer before I pulled the trigger" & " what was the trigger pull weight on my gun" The others lawyer was trying to use the hair trigger issue but my lawyer was slick when he had the jury actully fell and pull the trigger.The jury made several comments that it was had to pull the trigger on my gun. My pull weights were 12LB double action and 4LBs single action on a Model 57 4" 41 Mag. Long story short I won in that case and the judge dismissed the case. Just a note the other party had sued me the weapon mfg,ammo mfg and holster mfg and the department I worked for and the state and also the training schools I had been to include the military training I had. In todays world alot of people and lawyers think a civil siut is their way for early retirement.
As far as mods on my guns go today is very simple sights, trigger(smooth and not lightened) dehorning thats it and I use ammo that is used on local police departments.Most use S&W 40 but I use 9mm but same brand and bullet style.