Bersa 380...any good? - Page 5

cupsz71 · July 24th, 2008, 11:29 AM

Wifey has a BERSA T380 and it quite happy with it....cause it's hers....

Me not so much.

I've commented about my various "dislikes" about this gun on other posts in this forum, so I'll avoid getting into a rant.

If you have a chance, get your paws on one to TRY before you buy. Everything else is self-explanitory

Myself....I'll stick with my XD9sc.

exprt9 · July 24th, 2008, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSGTTBAR

This is my BT-380 duotone lying on top of my Taurus Milleneum Pro PT-145. The PT-111 (9mm) and 140 (40 cal) are the same size as the 145. My Bersa has been faultless for several years now and the Taurus offers a larger caliber for very little more size. Both are under $300 new at Academy Sports.

Is this what they call gun porn?

NCHornet · July 25th, 2008, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnitak

Obviously, you have a great deal of experience, so please don't take my questions as confrontational, I'm just trying to sort through all of the conflicting information I've seen. So, I'm curious as to how you might respond to a few questions that come to mind.

I've had a PPK/S. I currently own a PM9. I chose that for the 9mm specifically based on information I've read. For example:

9mm Versus .380 ACP For Self-Defense

Typically, the .380 is moving a much lighter bullet (90-100gr.) at about 850-950 fps, while the 9mm is moving a much heavier bullet (115-147gr.) at a faster speed (950-1100fps). So, traditionally, the 9mm has about 40% more energy than the .380. In your above example, you're using a 90gr. bullet at almost 1200 fps. So my question is, given the extra energy how easy is it to control out of a small .380? I know with my Walther, the recoil was a good bit more than my PM9. I can't imagine what it would be moving at another 300fps! Also, the energy of 276 ft lbs, is still considerably less than a typical 9mm of 340 ft lbs.

Here are some max loads out of the Speer reloading manual #13:

9mm -124 gr bullet @ 1249 fps, 430 ft/lbs of muzzle energy
.380 - 95 gr bullet @ 1027 fps, 223 ft/lbs of muzzle energy

This shows that the 9mm has almost twice the energy at max loads. I'm also curious as to the effect on the pistol of the, in essence, +P+ rounds rounds you reference above. How many .380 pistols are rated for that, especially given that the many designs (e.g., Walther) may be decades old and not suited for the pressures? And I can't imagine shooting those loads out of a Kel-Tec or LCP, not just for the recoil, but the impact on the gun itself.

So how is the .380 better? And, you haven't taken into consideration the +P 9mm ammo (which I can shoot in my PM9) in your comparison above, which has even greater energy. The .380 is just a 9mm short. Whatever the .380 can do, the 9mm can do with heavier bullets and more case room for more powder. Given the current crop of small 9mm guns, I don't get where the .380 is better alternative, except in those instances (like during the summer wearing shorts) where the smallest (e.g., LCP, P3AT) gun is the only alternative.

I have been on forums, of all types, to long for anyone to get under my skin, so no problem there. I also believe you misread my post. I never said any 380 is better than a 9MM, I simply get tired of the mentality you need a 45acp to be well protected. As far as the argument lighter bullet traveling faster is a better SD round than a heavier bullet traveling slower is a long debated subject that will never end. The heavier bullet will always develop more energy. If you look at ballistic charts most 9mm have around 280 to 350 ftlbs, I am not comparing the hot 380 +P to a +P 9mm, all I was trying to say is if loaded with the correct ammo the 380 can be a very useful SD gun. I do agree larger is better, but some folks simply can't control a larger caliber, and I would rather them hit COM with a 380, than a big toe shot with a 45ACP.
As far as recoil goes, I will let you know as I just ordered two boxes of them. I don't think it will be much more than the Corbon DPX's, and while defintely hotter than WWB, it is still controllable, at least for me.
The Buffalo Bore Gold Dots are a +P, as far as I know there is no such thing as a 380 +P+. I have contacted NAA as well as Sig and both have said their guns will handle these rounds just fine for SD and occassional range usage. They state that a steady diet of them may require more maintenance on the gun. As ewith all SD ammo, you need to feed your weapon enough to make 100% sure it is reliable, but then we usually practice with range, or in my case reloaded ammo. As to whether your particular 380 can handle the BB rounds, I suggest you contact the manufacturer directly. I hope I have answered your questions and further clarified my position.

Darth AkSarBen · August 12th, 2008, 03:02 AM

I've got both the Thunder .380 and the Bersa Mini Firestorm in .45 ACP. Both are reliable. Both are top notch shooters in accuracy, but my .45 is amazing in it's group size, considering it's overall size.
I consider it one of the sleepers of the Pistol family. Around her in SW Michigan, gun dealers can't keep them in stock. One local GS, On Target, near Kalamazoo, told me that they have sold over 250 of these pistols so far this year. I have the Duo-Tone in the .380 and Nickel in the .45.

I repeat, they are shooters. Like all things, and I have seen this even with the American made Kahr pistols, there are the ones that do turn up that should never have left the factory. Unfortunately this is not just something limited to the "cheaper" pistols, and I have seen on other forums, Glocks, Kel-Tecs, Kahn, Ruger, etc, someone always finds a "dud" and then you hear about it. Would be nice to see the actual statistics. say 1 in 2500 made that is a real lemon, and then do the figuring in percent. More than likely any make and model of ANY firearm will have that occasional slip up. But the percentages of those that are good against those that are not good would be a very low percentage.

CharlieP · August 12th, 2008, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth AkSarBen

... I repeat, they are shooters. Like all things, and I have seen this even with the American made Kahr pistols, there are the ones that do turn up that should never have left the factory. Unfortunately this is not just something limited to the "cheaper" pistols, and I have seen on other forums, Glocks, Kel-Tecs, Kahn, Ruger, etc, someone always finds a "dud" and then you hear about it. Would be nice to see the actual statistics. say 1 in 2500 made that is a real lemon, and then do the figuring in percent. ...

I can agree with the statement that these guns are shooters, but reliability is another issue. From my own experience, and from monitoring on-line gun boards, I would estimate that the "dud" ratio is a lot higher than 1/2500 for the 380 - 1/10 may be more like it. In recent months there have been MANY reports of FTF problems, most likely related to bad magazine springs. Another common report is broken or mis-located disconnector springs, which disables the trigger. So I shoot my Thunder 380, but I carry a snub revolver.

Darth AkSarBen · August 12th, 2008, 12:55 PM

CharlieP, I agree with you on the FTF thing. I have seen it on even the Bersa Talk forums. One thing that comes in play over and over is they seem to be a bit "specific" on what kind of ammo they like to digest. One other guy, had posted pictures of various .380 ammo and interestingly he also highlighted the shell case head and the slope of some of the cartridges being a more gradual slope (head) while others were sharper.
Magazines ARE most important. One of the major findings on Bersa is their magazines are a bit expensive. Hence, some people jump on an off brand for less money and it is almost alway a sure fire way to have feed problems.
It is an interesting variance among owner. Some go thousands of rounds with no FTF an other have 1-2 within a 50 count box. They do not advocate polishing the ramp, as it is anodized aluminum and polishing can degrade the surface protection, and lead to pitting. Looks like if it had a light protective oil it might stand the gaff for a bit longer period than without.

On my .45, I am lucky that the barrel and slide are one unit. It was fairly easy for me to polish the slide to a mirror finish. Takes time to do it right, but when you have a very very clean surface you would be surprised how much better the feed is.

Magazines, as I said can be a real headache. Release the cartridge too soon and it tends to go "nose up" and miss the chamber. Makes me wonder if there cannot be more QC on the magazines to alleviate some of these problems.

NCHornet · August 12th, 2008, 01:07 PM

Quote:

They do not advocate polishing the ramp, as it is anodized aluminum and polishing can degrade the surface protection, and lead to pitting.

The feedramp on the Bersa's is aluminum???? This sure doesn't sound like the proper area to be using a lighter/softer metal. Sure seems like the feedramp would suffer the higher the round count. I have never heard this before, not that a Bersa was on my list of "want to own's".

NCH

Darth AkSarBen · August 12th, 2008, 03:06 PM

They say it is an aluminum alloy. So, it could contain another metal in there to add strength to the lightness. Personally, I would have designed the pistol in a way that the feed ramp was Stainless Steel, or 4130 Steel, hardened.

Dihappy · August 12th, 2008, 10:30 PM

I love my CC .380 no problems :)

Gideon · August 12th, 2008, 11:41 PM

Hmmm, my Bersa will shoot anything I put in it, period. What I don't like about them for CCW is the mag disconnect and the safety lever. The disconnect I dislike for obvious reasons but the safety lever I really don't like. It's very very tight on mine and any I've handled in the stores and it's not easy to manipulate because of it's size. Some say it loosens. I have maybe 2000 rounds through mine and it hasn't loosened up at all.

Having said all of this, it is one of the most accurate handguns I have in my collection, bar none.

July 24th, 2008, 11:29 AM	#41
cupsz71 Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: North Dakota Posts: 131	Wifey has a BERSA T380 and it quite happy with it....cause it's hers.... Me not so much. I've commented about my various "dislikes" about this gun on other posts in this forum, so I'll avoid getting into a rant. If you have a chance, get your paws on one to TRY before you buy. Everything else is self-explanitory Myself....I'll stick with my XD9sc. __________________ BASIC MARKSMANSHIP - If you can't dazzle them with brilliance.......riddle them with bullets!!! XD9sc Beretta 92FS Bersa T380 (wifey's) Ruger Single Six .22/.22Mag

August 12th, 2008, 03:02 AM	#44
Darth AkSarBen Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Near Fennville, MI USA Posts: 62	I've got both the Thunder .380 and the Bersa Mini Firestorm in .45 ACP. Both are reliable. Both are top notch shooters in accuracy, but my .45 is amazing in it's group size, considering it's overall size. I consider it one of the sleepers of the Pistol family. Around her in SW Michigan, gun dealers can't keep them in stock. One local GS, On Target, near Kalamazoo, told me that they have sold over 250 of these pistols so far this year. I have the Duo-Tone in the .380 and Nickel in the .45. I repeat, they are shooters. Like all things, and I have seen this even with the American made Kahr pistols, there are the ones that do turn up that should never have left the factory. Unfortunately this is not just something limited to the "cheaper" pistols, and I have seen on other forums, Glocks, Kel-Tecs, Kahn, Ruger, etc, someone always finds a "dud" and then you hear about it. Would be nice to see the actual statistics. say 1 in 2500 made that is a real lemon, and then do the figuring in percent. More than likely any make and model of ANY firearm will have that occasional slip up. But the percentages of those that are good against those that are not good would be a very low percentage. __________________ Vern http://vernsdidj.com Didgeridoo info and some good links and pictures. Taurus 24/7 Pro SS 4" bbl .45 ACP

August 12th, 2008, 12:55 PM	#46
Darth AkSarBen Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Near Fennville, MI USA Posts: 62	CharlieP, I agree with you on the FTF thing. I have seen it on even the Bersa Talk forums. One thing that comes in play over and over is they seem to be a bit "specific" on what kind of ammo they like to digest. One other guy, had posted pictures of various .380 ammo and interestingly he also highlighted the shell case head and the slope of some of the cartridges being a more gradual slope (head) while others were sharper. Magazines ARE most important. One of the major findings on Bersa is their magazines are a bit expensive. Hence, some people jump on an off brand for less money and it is almost alway a sure fire way to have feed problems. It is an interesting variance among owner. Some go thousands of rounds with no FTF an other have 1-2 within a 50 count box. They do not advocate polishing the ramp, as it is anodized aluminum and polishing can degrade the surface protection, and lead to pitting. Looks like if it had a light protective oil it might stand the gaff for a bit longer period than without. On my .45, I am lucky that the barrel and slide are one unit. It was fairly easy for me to polish the slide to a mirror finish. Takes time to do it right, but when you have a very very clean surface you would be surprised how much better the feed is. Magazines, as I said can be a real headache. Release the cartridge too soon and it tends to go "nose up" and miss the chamber. Makes me wonder if there cannot be more QC on the magazines to alleviate some of these problems. __________________ Vern http://vernsdidj.com Didgeridoo info and some good links and pictures. Taurus 24/7 Pro SS 4" bbl .45 ACP

August 12th, 2008, 03:06 PM	#48
Darth AkSarBen Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Near Fennville, MI USA Posts: 62	They say it is an aluminum alloy. So, it could contain another metal in there to add strength to the lightness. Personally, I would have designed the pistol in a way that the feed ramp was Stainless Steel, or 4130 Steel, hardened. __________________ Vern http://vernsdidj.com Didgeridoo info and some good links and pictures. Taurus 24/7 Pro SS 4" bbl .45 ACP

August 12th, 2008, 10:30 PM	#49
Dihappy Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 197	I love my CC .380 no problems :) __________________ "...trying to get a long gun into play while someone is all over you like a monkey eating a cupcake is not very conducive to good survival techniques." ~Bark'n

August 12th, 2008, 11:41 PM	#50
Gideon Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 780	Hmmm, my Bersa will shoot anything I put in it, period. What I don't like about them for CCW is the mag disconnect and the safety lever. The disconnect I dislike for obvious reasons but the safety lever I really don't like. It's very very tight on mine and any I've handled in the stores and it's not easy to manipulate because of it's size. Some say it loosens. I have maybe 2000 rounds through mine and it hasn't loosened up at all. Having said all of this, it is one of the most accurate handguns I have in my collection, bar none. __________________ God Bless Gideon Jer 33:3

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