Rob72

Honestly, the most potent "caliber" is your mindset. If you have the will and drive to put down a violent assault, odds are you will do it. Debating single-shot stops is like debating single-punch take-downs; what works on one may not work on another, and depends on the target's mindset to a large extent, as well.

Personally, I shoot .32ACP and 9mm, some .38/357(when I have one). If I had the $$ to branch out in arms, parts & ammo, I might branch out some....but probably not. Just me,though.....

Tubby45

From 22 rimfire on up. There have been more people killed with a .22 LR than any other caliber. Use what you want and hit what you need to hit.

Reminds me of the OH State Trooper that shot someone four times in the chest with 158gr .357 Mag rounds from a 4" wheelgun and the SINGLE .22LR BULLET ENTERED HIS CHEST FROM UNDER HIS ARM AND HE DIED 20 SECONDS LATER. His killer took the 4 shots in the CHEST and didn't skip a beat.

Is the .22 LR better than the .357 Magnum? It is if you place your shot(s) in the right spot.

__________________
Freakshow Manufacturing LLC
"You can kill it. We can help."
07 FFL/ 02 SOT

ninpo

Shot Placement over Shot caliber...

__________________
"Stay Alert, Stay Alive"

CQBManny

1man,

Everything I have read indicates that shot placement, not caliber, is everything in "effectiveness" [i.e., stopping power]. Unless immediately incapacitated, a "mortally wounded" man with the will to survive can continue to fight for several seconds before expiring. Nonetheless, I think 9mm, .38 SPL, .357 MAG, .40 S&W, 10mm and .45ACP in that order and with quality ammunition should be first choice by anyone serious about self-defense carry.

However, if you have something less or cannot afford anything else the next best thing is to practice-practice-practice and become proficient with whatever you have. Lesser cartridges that I would consider in a pinch, least to most effective, would be .22 LR, .32ACP, .380ACP. If JHP was available in 9mm MAKAROV and 7.62X25 I'd throw those in, but I've only seen FMJ loads for those cartridges and I would never advise using FMJ for a defensive cartridge.

I'm reminded of a couple of old sayings here:

"The first rule of gunfighting: Have a gun!"
"Beware the man with one gun. He probably knows how to use it!"

Stay Safe!

Manny

Doc Holliday

Well since I can't conceal my AR-15 or the 870 that well I guess I would have to say nothing less than .38+p. But like most people on here harp, it all about shot placement.

__________________
Give Doc the shotgun.
They'll be less apt to get nervous if he's on the street howitzer.

Why, Johnny Ringo, you look like somebody just walked over your grave.

I have two guns, one for each of ya.

Rob72

Doc, you don't have a duster?!?!?

Doc Holliday

Well, I don't want to walk into the local Stop and Rob looking like Neo from the Matrix!!!!!
But then again maybe that wouldn't be so bad. Now if I could only make the BG's bullets stop in mid-air!

__________________
Give Doc the shotgun.
They'll be less apt to get nervous if he's on the street howitzer.

Why, Johnny Ringo, you look like somebody just walked over your grave.

I have two guns, one for each of ya.

Doc Holliday

Yeah, but no disrespect, but didn't the trooper do the same. Four hits in COM? To me this seems to be one of those freak things that happen from time. Sometimes you can't prevent your fate......

I know a .22 is better in the hand than a .45 in the house but I wouldn't personally go armed with that.

__________________
Give Doc the shotgun.
They'll be less apt to get nervous if he's on the street howitzer.

Why, Johnny Ringo, you look like somebody just walked over your grave.

I have two guns, one for each of ya.

Tubby45

All four were in the chest. Fat guy vs well-muscled ex-Marine (trooper).

One could argue the penetration issue, but in this instance it seems that the "freak" thing was the exact route for that 22 bullet to take to kill. The .357s didn't take that exact route and thus didn't incapacitate the threat. You can hit someone in the chest all you want, but until the bullets actually go somewhere AND do damage to vitals, all you are doing is shooting a good group, IMO.

__________________
Freakshow Manufacturing LLC
"You can kill it. We can help."
07 FFL/ 02 SOT

Tubby45

From firearmstactical.com, as posted on GT underline and stuff is me:

In November 1992, South Carolina Highway Patrolman Mark Coates shot an attacker four times in the torso with his 4 inch Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum revolver. His attacker, an obese adult male who weighed almost 300 pounds, absorbed the hits and shortly thereafter returned fire with one shot from a single-action North American Arms .22 caliber mini-revolver. Coates was fatally wounded when the tiny bullet perforated his left upper arm and penetrated his chest through the armhole of his vest where the bullet cut a major artery. Coates, who was standing next to the passenger-side front fender of the assailant's car when he was hit by the fatal bullet, was very quickly incapacitated.

After Coates was hit, he immediately ran several feet, scrambling around the front of the assailant's car while simultaneously radioing dispatch that he'd been shot. As he neared the driver's-side front fender he suddenly collapsed onto the pavement.

Trooper Coates fired four 145 grain Winchester Silvertip .357 Magnum bullets directly into his assailant's heavy abdomen, achieving solid hits with each. These particular bullets penetrate deeper than 125 grain JHPs, however none ruptured any vital cardiovascular structures. During the initial ground struggle, Coates was shot twice, but his vest protected him. After fighting off his attacker, Coates quickly climbed to his feet and emptied his revolver. At that particular moment the assailant was still lying on the ground. The combination of the assailant's obesity and the unusual angle at which the bullets entered his body worked to the disadvantage of Trooper Coates.

The Coates shooting exemplifies the fable of energy transfer, especially when encountering a determined attacker. The .357 Magnum cartridge is regarded by many as the ultimate manstopper; a true one-shot stop wonder. The Winchester 145 grain .357 Magnum cartridge is given a one-shot stopping power rating of 86 percent by Marshall and Sanow. According to this rating system, a single hit ANYWHERE in the torso is supposed to be highly effective in stopping an attacker, regardless of whether or not the bullet destroys vital tissue. But on this night, it failed FOUR TIMES! The assailant easily absorbed four bullets in his body, each delivering over 450 foot pounds of kinetic energy. This is equivalent to being hit four times by a baseball going approximately 210 miles per hour.


None of Coates' powerful .357 Magnum bullets were effective, but the bad guy's weak .22 caliber bullet was. The .357 Magnum bullets dumped all their energy into the attacker, whereas the single .22 caliber bullet disrupted vital tissue. The assailant survived the shooting, was convicted of murdering Coates and was sentenced to life in prison. END QUOTE

Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement. The SOB was lucky to have fired a fatal shot. No skill there.

__________________
Freakshow Manufacturing LLC
"You can kill it. We can help."
07 FFL/ 02 SOT