Where's my holster? - Page 12

QKShooter · January 15th, 2008, 01:44 PM

Correction For TiCarry and a couple of other folks in response to the following quote.

"The problem until recently with the allotment of this thread was all of us were "muzzled" for a lack of a better term and couldn't express or investigate issues with their holster makers or others with issues getting product out."

It's important for you all to understand that in addition to being a concealed carry discussion forum DefensiveCarry is set up to be a search-able information database.

Primarily for that reason Bumper did not want individual "holster order" and delivery problems to saturate the forum.

That would be because 6 months or a year from now & when a member is searching the forum for a specific holster maker, make, type or model of holster...they are really not going to care if you got your particular holster 6 months ago or not....when your personal gripe popped up in a forum search.

That was the main reason why we originally wanted members to take up their individual holster issues with the maker rather than polluting the forum with individual complaints and delivery problems.

It was after Bumper realized that members really were having serious problems contacting holster makers on a "person to person" basis and that they had absolutely no way to resolve their order issues that he graciously allowed specific threads to continue with his hope that members would be able voice their concerns publicly and finally get some sort of satisfaction and happy conclusions.

As long as you understand that DefensiveCarry is really intended to be an educational Internet concealed carry site with a primary focus centered around legal concealed carry.
That is its main goal goal & purpose.

Everything else is secondary and of far lesser importance to that.

So if anybody had the impression that they were being intentionally "muzzled & silenced" ~ you should now realize that impression was totally false.

Also it is important to remember that members always had the option of contacting holster makers (that were forum members) using the forum Private Mail feature.

We were never intended to be a subsidiary of Visa or MasterCard or the B.B.B. to assist in solving individual credit card disputes with holster makers or any other business establishment.

Just F.Y.I.

cdwolf · January 15th, 2008, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Concealed Carry Holsters & Carry Options There are some really good concealed carry holster designs, as well as some very bad ones on the market today. Whether you are in the market for a new holster or just discovered another perfect carry option, let us know about it here.

We are and thank you for that. This thread has brought a problem with some company's not delivering on their product, and may help some members avoid the same thing.
It has helped members to realize who TO DO BUSINESS WITH and who to avoid.
I truly believe this thread has helped more of your members than hurt.
It is a forum for sharing ideas, possible solutions, personal knowledge, and opinions.
Thru this forum I as I'm sure many others have learned a ton of knowledge from you and all of it's great members on company's, products , classes and people in a close community.
I will reread the rules so i don't talk about options to help.
Were not making this up whats the harm in telling the truth (emails to prove it) if it saves someone this much grief. edit as you wish

Ti Carry · January 15th, 2008, 02:37 PM

QK,

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't quite know to say all that as you put it for the explanation so as I said, for a lack of a better term or better yet, the actual explanation of what being "muzzled" was or was meant to be. That was definitely not meant as a bad thing, just was the reality of it and understandably.

Ti

Redneck Repairs · January 15th, 2008, 02:59 PM

For the record i did contact a member of the admin team and explain that i personally found this thread unfair unless and untill there is a similar " Good job " thread for our leathersmiths . It has been explained to me and i agree that there a lot of good job threads out there . However i am still concerned that a person can hit this thread and read only complaints all in one handy place without a thread that is good job to offset it . I just bought a holster off a custom maker here, and had the misfortune to get behind a 100+ holster order , it honestly made the posted wait time on his site a joke . However he did tell me had i ordered one week ahead of when i did he would have made the wait time , however the timeline was now " ill try and get it to you before the " holidays " . and he did by using next day air ( kudos K&D ) at a shipping cost that i am sure cut into his profit . My point ( if i have one ) i guess is that if everyone could and would make holsters we would have no complaints . Complaints are sometimes justified , sometimes not , we all have met " that ol boy that nothing suits " . I dont want to single out any custom leather smith , however i will say that the most honorable man in the world occationaly gets slapped upside the head with things out of his control . Just how he handles this will seperate the craftsmen from the shysters with skills .

torrejon224 · January 15th, 2008, 03:18 PM

I tend to agree with the Redneck and I'll add that I have had honest dealings and communiation with Milt Sparks, Lou Alessi, John Ralston (5shot) and Alex Nossar. Delivery times were almost to the day and the product(s) were above my expectations. As far as the flake being mentioned he is pretty close to if not committing fraud. Forget the BBB, your money is being stolen if it were me I'd be calling the TBI (Tenn Bureau of Inv) and seeing what they had to say!

Bumper · January 15th, 2008, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdwolf

We are and thank you for that. This thread has brought a problem with some company's not delivering on their product, and may help some members avoid the same thing.
It has helped members to realize who TO DO BUSINESS WITH and who to avoid.
I truly believe this thread has helped more of your members than hurt.
It is a forum for sharing ideas, possible solutions, personal knowledge, and opinions.
Thru this forum I as I'm sure many others have learned a ton of knowledge from you and all of it's great members on company's, products , classes and people in a close community.
I will reread the rules so i don't talk about options to help.
Were not making this up whats the harm in telling the truth (emails to prove it) if it saves someone this much grief. edit as you wish

I guess I'm not understanding who you are agreeing with or otherwise. I haven't seen anyone say anyone was making anything up; certainly not the staff of this forum, though the "your members" certainly sounds like you are addressing the staff. I'm confused...

Jaystekan · January 15th, 2008, 05:04 PM

I want to thank the admin and mods of this forum for this thread. I have been an active member of this site for a few months. I never really paid attention to the holster thread until recently. I am in the process of looking for a holster when I came across this thread.

Everyone who uses a forum knows that a forum is a place where people come to vent their frustrations and find answers and suggestions to problems. If i go to XYZ retail store down the block, make my purchase and everything is fine, I am not going to go online and post a thread saying all went well. If i go to XYZ retail store and have nothing but trouble, I may go online and post a warning to others about my situation and take suggestions on how to rectify the problem. When I use a forum, I like to think for every problem posted, there are probably 10 people who happily recieved their items and never posted a nice comment. That being said, the sheer number of complaints on here should serve as a warning to people to beware of certain manufacturers. The manufacturers named in the thread have every right to appeal using the same thread as the people complaining. The primary manufacturer that is mentioned here knows that this forum exists, knows people are complaining and chooses not to answer. I highly doubt that any moderators are deleting his responses. As far as I know this is a thread open to both consumers and manufacturers.

Looking back, I see I am the one who first suggested the Better Business Bureau. I just want to clarify that I have no dog in this fight. I am not involved in the leather business, gun business, holster business in any way whatsoever. I am not trying to get anyone in trouble, I am not trying to ruin anyones business. I am simply a third party suggesting a possible route for consumers to take. I posted the BBB route because when i looked up a particular holstermaker on the BBB website, I saw that a complaint was made to the BBB in June 2007 and was already rectified. In my opinion thats a pretty quick resolution compared to how long people on this thread have waited.

I tend to agree with torrejon. Judging by the number of complaints posted here, and by the amount of money involved, this no longer seems like a business behind in a deadline. This seems like fraud or theft. The number of complaints is easily in the tens of thousands of dollars range, if not more. Like I said i look at posts about problems as 1 problem post to every 10 good outcomes not posted. However we need to remember, while not everyone who received a satisfactory outcome posted, not everyone who's order is still in limbo posted either.

We all know the person who is never happy. Sometimes no matter what, a person is never satisfied with a product, especially a custom product. I don't see that in this the thread. I don't see people complaining about the quality of their holsters. I don't see people complaining their holsters were too expensive. The title of this thread says "Where's my holster". The people in this thread aren't people who are never happy. They are people who were never given the oppurtunity to decide whether they are happy or not with their items. They are people who have no choice but to be unhappy because their hard-earned money was taken and they received nothing in return.

Personally I am glad this thread is here. Like i said i am looking for a holster, which is why i saw this thread and it has helped me steer clear of adding my name to the list of the people already posting their troubles here. This thread may be unfair, may be biased, but it is an open thread and I am sure that response posts by those mentioned in this thread would be more than welcomed by the moderators of this site. The only reason this thread seems unfair is that the manufacturers here have CHOSEN NOT to represent their side of the story and therefore we see only one side. I see many good threads with pictures posted in the holster section of the site and have been looking through it trying to decide where to get my next holster.

ozshadow · January 15th, 2008, 05:08 PM

To get things back on topic:

Has anyone heard anything at all from Mark Garrity in the past month or two ? I have not seen any new holsters posted, and I have emailed him - his preferred method of communication.

I've heard nothing, and read nothing. Getting a bit concerned.

Anaconda44 · January 15th, 2008, 05:22 PM

I also have a outstanding order from Mark and tried to contact him a couple of times with no luck. I ordered a holster, belt and mag holster in Jan 07. I'm still hoping it will show up soon....

slimjim · January 15th, 2008, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anaconda44

I also have a outstanding order from Mark and tried to contact him a couple of times with no luck. I ordered a holster, belt and mag holster in Jan 07. I'm still hoping it will show up soon....

I also have attempted, unsuccesfully, to reach Mark over the last month. He appears to have cut off all communication with his customers, for which he has one less to deal with now. Fortunately, he never took payment upfront for my order. Good luck!

January 15th, 2008, 01:44 PM	#111
QKShooter Assistant Administrator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Runthegun, PA. Posts: 17,968	Correction For TiCarry and a couple of other folks in response to the following quote. "The problem until recently with the allotment of this thread was all of us were "muzzled" for a lack of a better term and couldn't express or investigate issues with their holster makers or others with issues getting product out." It's important for you all to understand that in addition to being a concealed carry discussion forum DefensiveCarry is set up to be a search-able information database. Primarily for that reason Bumper did not want individual "holster order" and delivery problems to saturate the forum. That would be because 6 months or a year from now & when a member is searching the forum for a specific holster maker, make, type or model of holster...they are really not going to care if you got your particular holster 6 months ago or not....when your personal gripe popped up in a forum search. That was the main reason why we originally wanted members to take up their individual holster issues with the maker rather than polluting the forum with individual complaints and delivery problems. It was after Bumper realized that members really were having serious problems contacting holster makers on a "person to person" basis and that they had absolutely no way to resolve their order issues that he graciously allowed specific threads to continue with his hope that members would be able voice their concerns publicly and finally get some sort of satisfaction and happy conclusions. As long as you understand that DefensiveCarry is really intended to be an educational Internet concealed carry site with a primary focus centered around legal concealed carry. That is its main goal goal & purpose. Everything else is secondary and of far lesser importance to that. So if anybody had the impression that they were being intentionally "muzzled & silenced" ~ you should now realize that impression was totally false. Also it is important to remember that members always had the option of contacting holster makers (that were forum members) using the forum Private Mail feature. We were never intended to be a subsidiary of Visa or MasterCard or the B.B.B. to assist in solving individual credit card disputes with holster makers or any other business establishment. Just F.Y.I. __________________ *Support Our Troops* How Very Fortunate You Are To Have Two Arms To Put Into A Ward 57 T-Shirt. DC MEMBERS ~ PLEASE BUY A WARD 57 SHIRT. Click Here.

January 15th, 2008, 02:37 PM	#113
Ti Carry VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Under Cover Posts: 2,024	QK, Thanks for the clarification. I didn't quite know to say all that as you put it for the explanation so as I said, for a lack of a better term or better yet, the actual explanation of what being "muzzled" was or was meant to be. That was definitely not meant as a bad thing, just was the reality of it and understandably. Ti __________________ Train and train hard, you might not get a second chance to make a first impression! I vote for Monica Lewinsky's Ex-Boyfriend's Wife for President.....Not!

January 15th, 2008, 02:59 PM	#114
Redneck Repairs VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 4,912	For the record i did contact a member of the admin team and explain that i personally found this thread unfair unless and untill there is a similar " Good job " thread for our leathersmiths . It has been explained to me and i agree that there a lot of good job threads out there . However i am still concerned that a person can hit this thread and read only complaints all in one handy place without a thread that is good job to offset it . I just bought a holster off a custom maker here, and had the misfortune to get behind a 100+ holster order , it honestly made the posted wait time on his site a joke . However he did tell me had i ordered one week ahead of when i did he would have made the wait time , however the timeline was now " ill try and get it to you before the " holidays " . and he did by using next day air ( kudos K&D ) at a shipping cost that i am sure cut into his profit . My point ( if i have one ) i guess is that if everyone could and would make holsters we would have no complaints . Complaints are sometimes justified , sometimes not , we all have met " that ol boy that nothing suits " . I dont want to single out any custom leather smith , however i will say that the most honorable man in the world occationaly gets slapped upside the head with things out of his control . Just how he handles this will seperate the craftsmen from the shysters with skills . __________________ Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life . We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think . Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

January 15th, 2008, 05:04 PM	#117
Jaystekan Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NC Posts: 273	I want to thank the admin and mods of this forum for this thread. I have been an active member of this site for a few months. I never really paid attention to the holster thread until recently. I am in the process of looking for a holster when I came across this thread. Everyone who uses a forum knows that a forum is a place where people come to vent their frustrations and find answers and suggestions to problems. If i go to XYZ retail store down the block, make my purchase and everything is fine, I am not going to go online and post a thread saying all went well. If i go to XYZ retail store and have nothing but trouble, I may go online and post a warning to others about my situation and take suggestions on how to rectify the problem. When I use a forum, I like to think for every problem posted, there are probably 10 people who happily recieved their items and never posted a nice comment. That being said, the sheer number of complaints on here should serve as a warning to people to beware of certain manufacturers. The manufacturers named in the thread have every right to appeal using the same thread as the people complaining. The primary manufacturer that is mentioned here knows that this forum exists, knows people are complaining and chooses not to answer. I highly doubt that any moderators are deleting his responses. As far as I know this is a thread open to both consumers and manufacturers. Looking back, I see I am the one who first suggested the Better Business Bureau. I just want to clarify that I have no dog in this fight. I am not involved in the leather business, gun business, holster business in any way whatsoever. I am not trying to get anyone in trouble, I am not trying to ruin anyones business. I am simply a third party suggesting a possible route for consumers to take. I posted the BBB route because when i looked up a particular holstermaker on the BBB website, I saw that a complaint was made to the BBB in June 2007 and was already rectified. In my opinion thats a pretty quick resolution compared to how long people on this thread have waited. I tend to agree with torrejon. Judging by the number of complaints posted here, and by the amount of money involved, this no longer seems like a business behind in a deadline. This seems like fraud or theft. The number of complaints is easily in the tens of thousands of dollars range, if not more. Like I said i look at posts about problems as 1 problem post to every 10 good outcomes not posted. However we need to remember, while not everyone who received a satisfactory outcome posted, not everyone who's order is still in limbo posted either. We all know the person who is never happy. Sometimes no matter what, a person is never satisfied with a product, especially a custom product. I don't see that in this the thread. I don't see people complaining about the quality of their holsters. I don't see people complaining their holsters were too expensive. The title of this thread says "Where's my holster". The people in this thread aren't people who are never happy. They are people who were never given the oppurtunity to decide whether they are happy or not with their items. They are people who have no choice but to be unhappy because their hard-earned money was taken and they received nothing in return. Personally I am glad this thread is here. Like i said i am looking for a holster, which is why i saw this thread and it has helped me steer clear of adding my name to the list of the people already posting their troubles here. This thread may be unfair, may be biased, but it is an open thread and I am sure that response posts by those mentioned in this thread would be more than welcomed by the moderators of this site. The only reason this thread seems unfair is that the manufacturers here have CHOSEN NOT to represent their side of the story and therefore we see only one side. I see many good threads with pictures posted in the holster section of the site and have been looking through it trying to decide where to get my next holster. __________________ The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. -Atlas Shrugged- Ayn Rand

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January 15th, 2008, 03:18 PM	#115
torrejon224 Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oregon Posts: 458	I tend to agree with the Redneck and I'll add that I have had honest dealings and communiation with Milt Sparks, Lou Alessi, John Ralston (5shot) and Alex Nossar. Delivery times were almost to the day and the product(s) were above my expectations. As far as the flake being mentioned he is pretty close to if not committing fraud. Forget the BBB, your money is being stolen if it were me I'd be calling the TBI (Tenn Bureau of Inv) and seeing what they had to say!

January 15th, 2008, 05:08 PM	#118
ozshadow Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 92	To get things back on topic: Has anyone heard anything at all from Mark Garrity in the past month or two ? I have not seen any new holsters posted, and I have emailed him - his preferred method of communication. I've heard nothing, and read nothing. Getting a bit concerned.

January 15th, 2008, 05:22 PM	#119
Anaconda44 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: CT Posts: 20	I also have a outstanding order from Mark and tried to contact him a couple of times with no luck. I ordered a holster, belt and mag holster in Jan 07. I'm still hoping it will show up soon....