slimjim

I'd also like to thank the moderators for allowing a thread like this. It has been long overdue.
It is important that potential customers understand what they can expect when ordering from those mentioned.
I am thankful that we may have such an informative forum to share.
It is about time that these guys are held accountable, that they are no longer being pampered and protected.

Brommeland

I really don't have much to add that hasn't been said already. I placed an order and paid for 3 holsters & 2 mag pouches back in March 06.
This past month I requested a refund from Gary, which was promptly issued.
I wasted close to 2 years waiting for an order, which I believed would unlikely be delivered anytime in the near future.
What really pissed me off with Gary, was when I talked to the guy at Coal Creek.
I asked him if they had a certain Max-Con in stock, he told me to call back later that week.
That he was expecting a sizable order from Brommeland.
I specifically asked if he gets many deliveries from Gary.
I was told they put their orders 3 months in advance and then they get them.
Here I am an individual customer who paid for 3 holsters and 2 mag pouches over 19 months ago and I still don't have my order.
Gary claimed Coal Creek placed their order in over 26 months ago and that he doesn't play favorites.
When I placed my order back on March 1st 06, I was originally told..."I'm not too backed up right now, this should go out in a few weeks".
I've since watched countless people receive their orders, esp. those who ordered Service Grade holsters after he started that line. I was told on numerous occasions that my holster was done and would be shipped.
I've heard things like..."I'm looking at your holster right now".
First delay had to do with the Def-Con reconstruction, then Service grade holsters, then supply issues, back problems, etc. etc.
I literally called for a brief update every 3-4 months, hardly excessive.
I am squared away right now, as I am no longer doing business with Brommeland.
It is a shame because he truly is a master craftsmen.

__________________
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.
-- Sigmund Freud

USPnTX

As I sit here typing this I have waited for my Def Con concealment holster for 15 months.
I was told that the wait time was 12 - 16 weeks when I initially ordered.
After five months went by I called to be told that my holster was to be made in the next batch which would be started in the next week.
I have been told that no less than four times.
One of those times was "I'm looking at your holster and it will be shipped in two weeks". Alas, I have not seen a holster yet.
To say I'm disappointed is an understatement.
Pure and simple, I have been lied to.
I'm not sure what to make of the Coal Creek Armory fiasco but it does seem to me that before you supply a stocking dealer with holsters you take care of your retail orders.

__________________
"Do not fear those who disagree with you; fear those that do and are too cowardly to admit it" - Napoleon

RobbW

This really gets my dander up. In the absence of information to the contrary, I thought I was the only victim of injustice. I had no idea there were so many others. I'm glad the truth is finally coming to light. Gary has been playing fast and loose with many of us.

I hold no ill will towards CCA. I communicated with a manager there, and he had no idea what was going on. He also expressed a willingness to go to bat for me, so to speak, which I politely declined. The responsibility for this mess is with Gary, not CCA. CCA also indicated they did not want more orders from Gary until he was caught up with previous commitments. CCA are good guys.

This thing stinks to high heaven. I'd be surprised if any dealer wants to be associated/tainted by Gary once a more complete picture emerges.

I'm not cancelling my order, though. I've waited 28 months and consider my time, not just my dollars, invested capital. I'm going to continue to wait for what I purchased in 2005.

If Gary for some reason cannot afford new leather/to continue, I'll frankly forgive him and think of the matter no more. If I receive the order, that's fine, too. Either way I'll report back here when a conclusion is reached. I hope we can all report back our conclusions. We're not getting the truth from Gary, but we can help each other by sharing what develops for us individually.

slimjim

Garrity Gunleather
I bought a Kahr P45 back in December and was looking for a high quality holster for it. It was going to be my summer carry gun and in deciding which holster maker to go with it, delivery time was a very important factor. I emailed Garrity back in Dec. 06 asking what his lead time was to which he responded 3-4 months. I subsequently placed an order on January 1st for an InCognito Deluxe and mag pouch. Mark responded very promptly to my emails at the time of ordering. After 4 months of waiting , I emailed Mark for an update. He explained he had a problem specifically with the P45 dummy gun, as it was out of specs, thereby delaying my order. No problem, I then changed the order to a different gun. I emailed Mark a few weeks ago looking for an update without response, knowing that I am coming up on the 1 year mark. Seems as though Mark has cut off communication with his customers in recent months. I have also observed others receive their orders after I placed mine. I've pretty much given up on expecting a holster delivery from Garrity. Another year wasted waiting on a holster order.

This is a quote from Mark on April 16th regarding his new turn-around time quote policy:

I have implemented a new policy on quoting turn-around times. That being - on any future orders I will no longer give an anticipated delivery date. You may have your order in 2 weeks, 2 months; or 11 months,2 weeks, and 2 days. My only promise is you will have it within a year of ordering.

I know there are plenty of people who have not received their orders within the 1 year promised. I'm betting I will also fall in that category.

__________________
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.
-- Sigmund Freud

sass20485

Ranger Gun Leather. I bought & PAID for a holster in October 2006, he has my money... I NEVER got anything in return! NO holster, NO refund, NO reply. Even the Better Business Bureau got nowhere on this for me. I'd avoid doing business with this guy, Greg Dunn of Ranger Gun Leather.

Brommeland, when Gary got backed up due to unforeseen and unavoidable issues, I waited patiently, I too heard my order was on the bench, would be shipped soon,etc, but when it got to be over 6 months past due and still no holster, I asked for and received a PROMPT refund.

TheHun

Brommeland Service Grade

Somebody correct me if I am wrong. I remember a thread in the past about his new service grade holster...faster delivery etc.

Service grade is a relatively recent addition to the line of his holsters. He has been supplying his dealer with this line of holsters, while other orders what were placed well before the new generation holsters were even introduced, just simply getting ignored.

__________________
I carry a gun cause I can't carry a cop.

Dan'l Boone

Brommeland

Order placed Jan 2007 - Looks like I may have more wait time in front than behind me.

Bumper

That is a point that needs to be clarified, actually. While there are a few holster makers that are having problems, most are not. We don't want to paint custom holster makers with a broad brush for those of you that may avoid ordering from a custom holster maker because some of the problems discussed here. You shouldn't. While demand is high and reasonable wait times are common, all of the custom holster makers we have sponsoring this site have delivered orders as promised and have kept the communication lines open with their customers. I have also updated my original post with this information.

__________________
Bumper
Administrator
DefensiveCarry.com Forum
Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.

raevan

The Craftsman trap. Taking money up front to pay for materials usually leads them to be taking orders to pay for materials to fulfill previous orders, If one gets faulty supplies then they just fall farther behind. So some makers have to make 'Bread and Butter pieces that sell quickly to pay for the materials to make the higher dollar pieces. This was real present in the custom knife world for awhile, still is to some extent. If an emergency comes up such as worn out equip or health problems it can totally blow thing to pieces. I stopped taking orders for knives to catch up, I lost customers. I filled all my orders I had left and have not taken any orders since. I make a few knives now and then and sell them after they are complete. I take no money up front and design the knives how I want. I have a lot of broken equip and no money to replace it.

I now have less stress because I finally admitted that I am an artist not a buisnessman. I make a few pieces and sell them if I can but don't take orders.

I am sure that the makers that are having problems will eventually catch up or get a good person to run their buisness so they can concentrate on their art.

A word to the wise, some products are easier to make then others, so when one gets behind on orders it is less stressfull to work on the easy ones first and get them out. This is a trap, Makers really need to set prioritys and stick to them.

I offer this as a failed buisnessman. There are really no good excuses because they are just that, excuses as to why the buisness is flopping. I had to face facts that I was overextended and had to deal with it.

Ti Carry

----- Original Message -----
From: garritysgunleather@cox.
To: "Gxxxx Nxxxx"
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: In-Cognito order!


Got it!
Thanks,
Mark

Above is my original order to Garrity, actually his reply back letting me know he got it after I emailed and had to ask him for a response to make sure he did get it after 2-3 day's went by.

Quote:

This is a quote from Mark on April 16th regarding his new turn-around time quote policy: I have implemented a new policy on quoting turn-around times. That being - on any future orders I will no longer give an anticipated delivery date. You may have your order in 2 weeks, 2 months; or 11 months,2 weeks, and 2 days. My only promise is you will have it within a year of ordering.

Also, above, in the quote, what slimjim wrote in his post as to what Mark's new policy is, I didn't even know about until his posting it here.

So, officially Oct, 19th 2006 was the actual order date. More than 14 months of waiting. So I guess that blows the 1 year therory out the window. I'd still be waiting if I didn't fire him as my holster maker (without a response either) after completely ignoring the fact he has customers with holster orders that want there stuff. I am just so sick of wasting 12-24 months with nothing to show for it.

ETA:
I also agree with Bumper, there are many makers on this site and off this site that do deliver at or very near there quoted delivery times and do it well. These are the makers that have earned my business. There is only a select few that have earned there reputations that are being discussed in this thread. You can only buffalo your customers with excuses that don't add up for so long before it start's catching up with you and the customer loses all respect and goes elsewhere for there holster needs.


Ti

__________________
Train and train hard, you might not get a second chance to make a first impression!

I vote for Monica Lewinsky's Ex-Boyfriend's Wife for President.....Not!