Does CCW have an effect on violent crime?

ElMonoDelMar · June 3rd, 2006, 10:01 PM

I was having a discussion with my dad about CCW and why Illinois citizens should be allowed to carry. He told me that according to one of his pro-gun coworkers, CCW has no impact (positive or negative) on violent crimes in states where these laws are passed. I've come up short looking for statistics to back up my claims.

Does CCW actually reduce violent crime? Where can I find a reliable source that either proves or disproves this?

Thanks in advance.

Sheldon J · June 3rd, 2006, 10:34 PM

our CCW and became a shall issue state, our crime according to the anti "Detroit News" has dropped all across the board, rape, assault, with pulled permits for violations is like less than .00 of a %. If you want numbers try the NRA ILA site.

HotGuns · June 3rd, 2006, 10:40 PM

CARRYING CONCEALED FIREARMS (CCW) STATISTICS

Violent crime rates are highest overall in states with laws severely limiting or prohibiting the carrying of concealed firearms for self-defense. (FBI Uniform Crime Reports, 1992) -

The total Violent Crime Rate is 26% higher in the restrictive states (798.3 per 100,000 pop.) than in the less restrictive states (631.6 per 100,000).

The Homicide Rate is 49% higher in the restrictive states (10.1 per 100,000) than in the states with less restrictive CCW laws (6.8 per 100,000).

The Robbery Rate is 58% higher in the restrictive states (289.7 per 100,000) than in the less restrictive states (183.1 per 100,000).

The Aggravated Assault Rate is 15% higher in the restrictive states (455.9 per 100,000) than in the less restrictive states (398.3 per 100,000). Using the most recent FBI data (1992), homicide trends in the 17 states with less restrictive CCW laws compare favorably against national trends, and almost all CCW permittees are law-abiding.

Since adopting CCW (1987), Florida's homicide rate has fallen 21% while the U.S. rate has risen 12%. From start-up 10/1/87 2/28/94 (over 6 yrs.) Florida issued 204,108 permits; only 17 (0.008%) were revoked because permittees later committed crimes (not necessarily violent) in which guns were present (not necessarily used).

Of 14,000 CCW licensees in Oregon, only 4 (0.03%) were convicted of the criminal (not necessarily violent) use or possession of a firearm. Americans use firearms for self-defense more than 2.1 million times annually.

By contrast, there are about 579,000 violent crimes committed annually with firearms of all types. Seventy percent of violent crimes are committed by 7% of criminals, including repeat offenders, many of whom the courts place on probation after conviction, and felons that are paroled before serving their full time behind bars.

Two-thirds of self-protective firearms uses are with handguns.

99.9% of self-defense firearms uses do not result in fatal shootings of criminals, an important factor ignored in certain "studies" that are used to claim that guns are more often misused than used for self-protection. Of incarcerated felons surveyed by the Department of Justice, 34% have been driven away, wounded, or captured by armed citizens; 40% have decided against committing crimes for fear their would-be victims were armed.

OTHER CCW FACTS

With adoption of CCW by Arizona, Tennessee and Wyoming in early 1994, 19 states have CCW laws requiring the issuance of permits to carry concealed firearms for self-defense to citizens who meet fair and reasonable state standards. Vermont, which ranks near the bottom in violent crime rates year-in and year-out, allows firearms to be carried concealed without a permit.

In recent years NRA successfully fought for the adoption of favorable CCW laws now on the books in Florida (1987), Idaho (1990, amended 1991), Mississippi (1990), Montana (1991), and Oregon (1990). In recent legislative sessions, proposals for similar CCW laws have progressed in Alaska, Colorado, Missouri, Oklahoma and Texas.

Anti-gun forces oppose CCW with a variety of arguments, ranging from deliberate misrepresentations of commonly available crime data to "studies" pretending to show that private ownership of firearms leads to death and injury rather than providing protection to the owner.

1. Firearms ownership opponents claim that "violent crime" went up in Florida since that state enacted CCW legislation in 1987, a misleading statement for multiple reasons:

Florida's homicide rate has declined 21% since adopting CCW in1987.

No comparison of aggravated assault, robbery, and rape (99.3% of Florida violent crimes) beginning before 1988 is valid,according to the Florida Dept. of Law Enforcement. In 1988,Florida changed its method of compiling crime statistics.

In Florida, as in the U.S., more than 70% of violent crimes do not involve guns. Violent crime rates, therefore, don't necessarily reflect violent gun-related crime trends. According to the most recent FBI Uniform Crime Reports (1992), nationwide firearms were used in the four violent crimes that make up the total "Violent Crime" category, as follows: Aggravated Assault (58% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in 25%; Robbery (35% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in 41%; Rapes (6% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in an estimated 5%-10% (survey data); and Homicides (1% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in 68%.

In Florida: Aggravated Assaults (64% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in 25%; Robberies (30% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in 37%; Rapes (4% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in an estimated 5%-10% (survey data); and Homicides (0.7% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in 61%.

2. Anti-gunners cite "studies" they claim show that firearms kept at home are "43 times more likely" to be used to kill family members than be used for self-defense. (Other "studies" claim different ratios.) The 43:1 claim, based upon a small-scale study of Kings County (Seattle) and Shelby County (Memphis), is a fraud, because it counts as self-defense gun uses only those cases in which criminals were killed in the defender's home. Approximately 99.9% of all defensive gun uses are not fatal shootings, however -- criminals are usually frightened off, held at bay, or non-fatally wounded. Also, many defensive firearms uses occur away from home. Further, suicides were counted as "family member killings" in the "study," elevating that number more than 500%. Unfortunately, some of these "studies" are funded with taxpayer dollars, through grants from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, a division of the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services.

-------------------------

This information is presented as a service to the Internet community by the NRA/ILA.

Many files are available via anonymous ftp from ftp.nra.org and via WWW at http://www.nra.org

Be sure to subscribe to rkba-alert by sending: subscribe rkba-alert Your Full Name as the body of a message to rkba-alert-request@NRA.org

Information can also be obtained by connecting to the NRA-ILA GUN-TALK BBS at (703) 934-2121.

ElMonoDelMar · June 3rd, 2006, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheldon J

our CCW and became a shall issue state, our crime according to the anti "Detroit News" has dropped all across the board, rape, assault, with pulled permits for violations is like less than .00 of a %. If you want numbers try the NRA ILA site.

I'll check the NRA ILA site.

Do you have any links to those articles from the Detroit News?

P95Carry · June 3rd, 2006, 10:41 PM

Stat's evidence is hard to find (tho added thx to HG for his details!) but - I'd work this slightly in reverse and cite the big no-no cities like DC, NYC, Chicago etc as prime examples of where high crime is rife and yet no CCW is allowed. I am convinced violent crimes would reduce measurably if things were different, tho leave the gangs to themselves - they'll always be capping each other.

Ergo - the fewer guns in legitimate and responsible possession - the more likely will be the bad guy's blatant attempts at victimization of the innocent.

Another factor - coming from prisoners behind bars - when quizzed about guns they are much less fearful of cops than they are of the armed citizen - pretty much all admit the same. Armed citizen is feared.

There is plenty of crime in PA but I do firmly believe that potential bad guys must be influenced by the level not only of gun ownership (most houses have guns) but even more so the knowledge (if they are smart) that 6% and even more now maybe, of PA citizens carry.

Made me think - at a local stock car race evening with maybe just 2,000 people present - in theory 120 could be carrying - quite a disincentive to bad guys IMO.

HotGuns · June 3rd, 2006, 10:47 PM

Ever notice that crime in the citys is more prevalent than crime in the countryside ?

The BG's know that if they get out of city limits their chances of getting shot go way up !

amlevin · June 3rd, 2006, 10:52 PM

In the never ending battle of words, anti-gun advocates (kind of an oxymoron her I think) will always quote the quantity of violent crime when stating their positions on CCW. Those with more common sense will ask what the RATE of violent crime per 1,000 people. Evidently the "anti's" don't realize that we still have a positive birth rate in this country and there are more people in big cities.

I would think that both considered, the growth, and the reduction in rate would be a double nail in their arguments coffin.

ElMonoDelMar · June 3rd, 2006, 11:22 PM

Well thanks for the advice, guys. I was really hoping to find something more concrete.

Janq · June 3rd, 2006, 11:38 PM

The following are facts with citations of source(s) from the site 'Maryland Shall Issue.org':

Quote:

Maryland CCW Permit Info

Some say that Maryland's Concealed Carry Handgun Permit system is fine the way it is.

Are they right?

28.9 percent of all Permits are issued to police officers. However, in July of 2004, federal legislation (HR 218) was signed into law allowing both active and retired police officers to carry a concealed firearm for protection while off duty in all 50 states and the District of Columbia. The Permits issued to most of these officers are no longer really needed.

37.6 percent of all Permits are issued to corrections officers, security guards, private detectives, judges, bail bondsmen and others working in areas of government, security or the judicial system.

31.8 percent of all Permits are issued to business people who deal with a lot of cash.

Just 1.7 percent of all Permits are issued to people for Personal Protection. Only 661 Permits in a State with a population of 5.6 million. That’s just one Permit issued for every 8,473 people.

Delaware also has a Discretionary Permit system, but they issue one Permit for every 767 people. You are ten times more likely to get a Permit in Delaware than in Maryland.

How about in the surrounding Shall Issue states?

In West Virginia, one out of every 71 people has a Permit.

In Virginia, one out of every 68 people has a Permit.

And in Pennsylvania, one out of every 21 people has a Permit.

Well, surely Maryland must be safer, right?

According to the annually published FBI Uniform Crime Report here’s how all these states ranked for crime in 2004.

FBI Uniform Crime Report, Crime in the United State, 2004
Rankings by State (a high number indicates a LOW crime rate)
State Violent crime Murder Robbery Aggravated assault Property crime Motor vehicle theft
Maryland 3 2 1 7 22 6
Delaware 9 45 13 8 30 34
Pennsylvania 23 23 12 26 44 35
Virginia 35 22 26 37 37 37
West Virginia 36 30 41 27 41 41

* A detailed breakdown of exactly what type of persons are MD licensed CCW'rs by career, gender and race is provided at the source site.
http://www.marylandshallissue.org/ccwdata.html

Quote:

National Survey Results of Police Chiefs and Sheriffs

The following survey question was posed by mail of 22,587 Chiefs of Police and Sheriffs in the United States. It represents a cross section of professional command officers involving every state. The survey was conducted for the 16th consecutive year by the National Association of Chiefs of Police. (321)264-0911. policeinfo@aphf.org

Q. Do you agree that a national concealed handgun permit would reduce rates of violent crime as recent studies in some states have already reflected?

A. 65.7% responded YES

--from American Police Hall of Fame

http://www.marylandshallissue.org/leo.html

Quote:

THE LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSPECTIVE
FROM THOSE WHO HAVE STUDIED - EVEN EXPERIENCED THE RIGHT TO CARRY TRACK RECORD

"In a recent poll, more than eighty-five percent of our 1352 members favored Right-to-Carry." -- Letter to St. Louis Police Chief Ron Henderson, from Sgt. John J. Johnson, President St. Louis Police Officers Association, 1/23/99.

"The Executive Board of the St. Louis Police Officers Association (SLPOA), representing over 1300 commissioned officers employed by the St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department, has voted to support the passage of the April 6, 1999 Right-to-Carry referendum." -- St. Louis Police Officers Assn., 1/99 Press Release

"I lobbied against the law in 1993 and 1995 because I thought it would lead to wholesale armed conflict. That hasn't happened. All the horror stories I thought would come to pass didn't happen. No bogeyman. I think it's worked out well, and that says good things about the citizens who have permits. I'm a convert." -- Glenn White, President of the Dallas Police Association, Dallas Morning News, December 23, 1997.

"From a law enforcement perspective, the licensing process has not resulted in problems in the community from people arming themselves with concealed weapons." -- Commissioner James T. Moore, Florida Department of Law Enforcement, Memo to the Governor, 3/15/95.

"As we have seen in other states and had predicted would occur in Texas, all the fears of the nay sayers have not come to fruition. A lot of critics argued that the law-abiding citizens couldn't be trusted... But the facts do speak for themselves. None of these horror stories have materialized." -- Sheriff David Williams, Tarrant County, TX, Fort Worth Telegram, 7/17/96.

"Some of the public safety concerns which we imagined or anticipated a couple of years ago, to our pleasant surprise, have been unfounded or mitigated." -- Fairfax County VA Police Major Bill Brown, The Alexandria Journal, 7/9/97.

"I was wrong. But I'm glad to say I was wrong." -- Arlington County VA Police Detective Paul Larson, previously an opponent of Right to Carry, The Alexandria Journal, 7/9/97.

"Virginia has not turned into Dodge City. We have not seen a problem." -- Virginia Public Safety Secretary Jerry Kilgore, The Fredricksburg Freelance Star, 2/2/96.

"The concerns I had - with more guns on the street, folks may be more apt to square off against one another with weapons - we haven't experienced that." -- Charlotte-Mecklenburg NC Police Chief Dennis Nowicki, The News and Observer, 11/24/97.

"The preponderance of the evidence suggests that the vast majority (of permit holders) act responsibly." -- State Sen. Jerry Patterson, R-Pasadena, author of Texas' firearm carry law.

"To set the record straight... The process is working... The statistics show a majority of concealed firearms or firearm licensees are honest, law-abiding citizens exercising their right to be armed for the purpose of lawful self defense." -- Sandra B. Mortham, Florida Secretary of State.

"Allowing citizens to carry concealed firearms deters violent crimes and it appears to produce no increase in accidental deaths. If those states which did not have right to carry concealed gun provisions had adopted them in 1992, approximately 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes and over 60,000 aggravated assaults would have been avoided yearly." -- Professor John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, University of Chicago.

"The facts are in and the record is clear: Right to Carry gives law enforcement, their families and our communities real protection from violent criminals." -- James J. Fotis, Executive Director, Law Enforcement Alliance of America.

--from Western Missouri Shooters Alliance

http://www.marylandshallissue.org/leo.html

- Janq

gddyup · June 3rd, 2006, 11:38 PM

There are pages and pages of statistics on this site. You can download the pdf and print it out if need be.

http://www.gunfacts.info/

June 3rd, 2006, 10:01 PM	#1
ElMonoDelMar Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Champaign, Illinois Posts: 316	Does CCW have an effect on violent crime? I was having a discussion with my dad about CCW and why Illinois citizens should be allowed to carry. He told me that according to one of his pro-gun coworkers, CCW has no impact (positive or negative) on violent crimes in states where these laws are passed. I've come up short looking for statistics to back up my claims. Does CCW actually reduce violent crime? Where can I find a reliable source that either proves or disproves this? Thanks in advance.

June 3rd, 2006, 10:34 PM	#2
Sheldon J Distinguished Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Battle Creek, Mi. Posts: 1,686	Since MI enacted our CCW and became a shall issue state, our crime according to the anti "Detroit News" has dropped all across the board, rape, assault, with pulled permits for violations is like less than .00 of a %. If you want numbers try the NRA ILA site. __________________ "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

June 3rd, 2006, 10:41 PM	#5
P95Carry Assistant Administrator Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South West PA Posts: 25,400	Stat's evidence is hard to find (tho added thx to HG for his details!) but - I'd work this slightly in reverse and cite the big no-no cities like DC, NYC, Chicago etc as prime examples of where high crime is rife and yet no CCW is allowed. I am convinced violent crimes would reduce measurably if things were different, tho leave the gangs to themselves - they'll always be capping each other. Ergo - the fewer guns in legitimate and responsible possession - the more likely will be the bad guy's blatant attempts at victimization of the innocent. Another factor - coming from prisoners behind bars - when quizzed about guns they are much less fearful of cops than they are of the armed citizen - pretty much all admit the same. Armed citizen is feared. There is plenty of crime in PA but I do firmly believe that potential bad guys must be influenced by the level not only of gun ownership (most houses have guns) but even more so the knowledge (if they are smart) that 6% and even more now maybe, of PA citizens carry. Made me think - at a local stock car race evening with maybe just 2,000 people present - in theory 120 could be carrying - quite a disincentive to bad guys IMO. __________________ Chris - P95 NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member. "To own a gun and assume that you are armed is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!." If a BG dies as the result of pointing a gun at me, then he has merely succumbed to an occupational hazard of being a thug

June 3rd, 2006, 10:52 PM	#7
amlevin Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Marysville, WA Posts: 174	In the never ending battle of words, anti-gun advocates (kind of an oxymoron her I think) will always quote the quantity of violent crime when stating their positions on CCW. Those with more common sense will ask what the RATE of violent crime per 1,000 people. Evidently the "anti's" don't realize that we still have a positive birth rate in this country and there are more people in big cities. I would think that both considered, the growth, and the reduction in rate would be a double nail in their arguments coffin. __________________ ""If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying, I either won't need more or, more won't help me.""

June 3rd, 2006, 11:38 PM	#10
gddyup Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Derry, NH Posts: 902	There are pages and pages of statistics on this site. You can download the pdf and print it out if need be. http://www.gunfacts.info/ __________________ Firefighter/EMT My own piece of the web... The Right of Defense It is better to be the widow of a hero than the wife of a coward. - Dolores Ibarruri

June 3rd, 2006, 10:40 PM	#3
HotGuns Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 5,880	CARRYING CONCEALED FIREARMS (CCW) STATISTICS Violent crime rates are highest overall in states with laws severely limiting or prohibiting the carrying of concealed firearms for self-defense. (FBI Uniform Crime Reports, 1992) - The total Violent Crime Rate is 26% higher in the restrictive states (798.3 per 100,000 pop.) than in the less restrictive states (631.6 per 100,000). The Homicide Rate is 49% higher in the restrictive states (10.1 per 100,000) than in the states with less restrictive CCW laws (6.8 per 100,000). The Robbery Rate is 58% higher in the restrictive states (289.7 per 100,000) than in the less restrictive states (183.1 per 100,000). The Aggravated Assault Rate is 15% higher in the restrictive states (455.9 per 100,000) than in the less restrictive states (398.3 per 100,000). Using the most recent FBI data (1992), homicide trends in the 17 states with less restrictive CCW laws compare favorably against national trends, and almost all CCW permittees are law-abiding. Since adopting CCW (1987), Florida's homicide rate has fallen 21% while the U.S. rate has risen 12%. From start-up 10/1/87 2/28/94 (over 6 yrs.) Florida issued 204,108 permits; only 17 (0.008%) were revoked because permittees later committed crimes (not necessarily violent) in which guns were present (not necessarily used). Of 14,000 CCW licensees in Oregon, only 4 (0.03%) were convicted of the criminal (not necessarily violent) use or possession of a firearm. Americans use firearms for self-defense more than 2.1 million times annually. By contrast, there are about 579,000 violent crimes committed annually with firearms of all types. Seventy percent of violent crimes are committed by 7% of criminals, including repeat offenders, many of whom the courts place on probation after conviction, and felons that are paroled before serving their full time behind bars. Two-thirds of self-protective firearms uses are with handguns. 99.9% of self-defense firearms uses do not result in fatal shootings of criminals, an important factor ignored in certain "studies" that are used to claim that guns are more often misused than used for self-protection. Of incarcerated felons surveyed by the Department of Justice, 34% have been driven away, wounded, or captured by armed citizens; 40% have decided against committing crimes for fear their would-be victims were armed. OTHER CCW FACTS With adoption of CCW by Arizona, Tennessee and Wyoming in early 1994, 19 states have CCW laws requiring the issuance of permits to carry concealed firearms for self-defense to citizens who meet fair and reasonable state standards. Vermont, which ranks near the bottom in violent crime rates year-in and year-out, allows firearms to be carried concealed without a permit. In recent years NRA successfully fought for the adoption of favorable CCW laws now on the books in Florida (1987), Idaho (1990, amended 1991), Mississippi (1990), Montana (1991), and Oregon (1990). In recent legislative sessions, proposals for similar CCW laws have progressed in Alaska, Colorado, Missouri, Oklahoma and Texas. Anti-gun forces oppose CCW with a variety of arguments, ranging from deliberate misrepresentations of commonly available crime data to "studies" pretending to show that private ownership of firearms leads to death and injury rather than providing protection to the owner. 1. Firearms ownership opponents claim that "violent crime" went up in Florida since that state enacted CCW legislation in 1987, a misleading statement for multiple reasons: Florida's homicide rate has declined 21% since adopting CCW in1987. No comparison of aggravated assault, robbery, and rape (99.3% of Florida violent crimes) beginning before 1988 is valid,according to the Florida Dept. of Law Enforcement. In 1988,Florida changed its method of compiling crime statistics. In Florida, as in the U.S., more than 70% of violent crimes do not involve guns. Violent crime rates, therefore, don't necessarily reflect violent gun-related crime trends. According to the most recent FBI Uniform Crime Reports (1992), nationwide firearms were used in the four violent crimes that make up the total "Violent Crime" category, as follows: Aggravated Assault (58% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in 25%; Robbery (35% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in 41%; Rapes (6% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in an estimated 5%-10% (survey data); and Homicides (1% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in 68%. In Florida: Aggravated Assaults (64% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in 25%; Robberies (30% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in 37%; Rapes (4% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in an estimated 5%-10% (survey data); and Homicides (0.7% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in 61%. 2. Anti-gunners cite "studies" they claim show that firearms kept at home are "43 times more likely" to be used to kill family members than be used for self-defense. (Other "studies" claim different ratios.) The 43:1 claim, based upon a small-scale study of Kings County (Seattle) and Shelby County (Memphis), is a fraud, because it counts as self-defense gun uses only those cases in which criminals were killed in the defender's home. Approximately 99.9% of all defensive gun uses are not fatal shootings, however -- criminals are usually frightened off, held at bay, or non-fatally wounded. Also, many defensive firearms uses occur away from home. Further, suicides were counted as "family member killings" in the "study," elevating that number more than 500%. Unfortunately, some of these "studies" are funded with taxpayer dollars, through grants from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, a division of the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services. ------------------------- This information is presented as a service to the Internet community by the NRA/ILA. Many files are available via anonymous ftp from ftp.nra.org and via WWW at http://www.nra.org Be sure to subscribe to rkba-alert by sending: subscribe rkba-alert Your Full Name as the body of a message to rkba-alert-request@NRA.org Information can also be obtained by connecting to the NRA-ILA GUN-TALK BBS at (703) 934-2121.

June 3rd, 2006, 10:47 PM	#6
HotGuns Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 5,880	Ever notice that crime in the citys is more prevalent than crime in the countryside ? The BG's know that if they get out of city limits their chances of getting shot go way up !

June 3rd, 2006, 11:22 PM	#8
ElMonoDelMar Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Champaign, Illinois Posts: 316	Well thanks for the advice, guys. I was really hoping to find something more concrete.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode