Even with intense training .......... - Page 3

Wayne · June 15th, 2006, 06:57 PM

I subscribe to the same training as LEO's. Keep firing until the threat is over.

To me, it's over when the BG is on the ground and his/her/its (have to be all inclusive here to be fair) weapon cannot be used.

I've read too many horror stories of LEO's having to fire dozens of rounds with dozens of hits before the BG goes down.

Wayne

Greg700 · June 15th, 2006, 09:58 PM

Even with 5.56 many in the military are starting to move away from a double tap. Guys would enter a room, shoot a bad guy twice and then scan for additional threats without first making sure bad guy #1 is down.

PaulG · June 15th, 2006, 10:14 PM

I agree with the idea of continuing to fire until the threat is over but I don't agree that going to slide lock is a bad thing. In fact, as long as you are getting good hits, slide lock just means you need to get the gun back into action so you can get more good hits.

If fact, when you are in a gun fight, I believe that counting your rounds is going to be the last thing on your mind.

Once you have made the decision that you must fire, you should continue firing until the threat is gone unless you have managed to make it to cover.

While I practice tactical reloads, my emphasis is on reloading from slide lock and getting the gun back into action.

paramedic70002 · June 16th, 2006, 10:16 AM

I think I can summarize this topic. In a nutshell, if you get into a shooting war, you're screwed. Reacting to a threat, simply, puts us all behind the dreaded 8 ball. Professional training helps to unscrew the situation a bit, but there are so many variables to a given shootout that, lacking serious regular training in force on force scenarios, you are going to ACT versus mentally indexing your options. Stress has a way of mutilating a plan unless it is proven, trained, and ingrained. Pick your best options in advance, then practice, practice, practice.

Jungle Work · June 16th, 2006, 05:17 PM

Param02,
What you have just summerized is the reason for finding the best training you can afford. In any intense situation you will REACT to it as you have been trained. The better your training, the better you will react. Most of the time, when the poopoo hits the osciallating propeller you do not have time to mentally index a whole lot of things, so you and your actions will revert back to how you have been trained. And that in the words of those who have been there is why training is so important.

But that said, nothing beats actually doing it.

Jungle Work

Jfan · June 16th, 2006, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs

As a trainer once told me Firstsies for everyone , then dispense seconds and thirds as needed , get inside the OODA loop ( for the new folks who may not have heard of OODA loop go here http://www.belisarius.com/modern_bus..._good_OODA.pdf ) by " changing their channel " with placed shots , then address the threat(s) by continuing fire until they drop and stop . and remember you need to do this without tunnel vision and while moving to cover . so yea Chris I would say luck plays a role in any confrontation LOL

People have spent a lot of time and money for less info than what's in that link. Thanks.

June 15th, 2006, 10:14 PM	#23
PaulG Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 1,127	I don't think slide lock is bad I agree with the idea of continuing to fire until the threat is over but I don't agree that going to slide lock is a bad thing. In fact, as long as you are getting good hits, slide lock just means you need to get the gun back into action so you can get more good hits. If fact, when you are in a gun fight, I believe that counting your rounds is going to be the last thing on your mind. Once you have made the decision that you must fire, you should continue firing until the threat is gone unless you have managed to make it to cover. While I practice tactical reloads, my emphasis is on reloading from slide lock and getting the gun back into action.

June 16th, 2006, 10:16 AM	#24
paramedic70002 VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Franklin, VA Posts: 2,688	I think I can summarize this topic. In a nutshell, if you get into a shooting war, you're screwed. Reacting to a threat, simply, puts us all behind the dreaded 8 ball. Professional training helps to unscrew the situation a bit, but there are so many variables to a given shootout that, lacking serious regular training in force on force scenarios, you are going to ACT versus mentally indexing your options. Stress has a way of mutilating a plan unless it is proven, trained, and ingrained. Pick your best options in advance, then practice, practice, practice. __________________ Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But... Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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June 15th, 2006, 06:57 PM	#21
Wayne Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 823	I subscribe to the same training as LEO's. Keep firing until the threat is over. To me, it's over when the BG is on the ground and his/her/its (have to be all inclusive here to be fair) weapon cannot be used. I've read too many horror stories of LEO's having to fire dozens of rounds with dozens of hits before the BG goes down. Wayne

June 15th, 2006, 09:58 PM	#22
Greg700 New Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5	Even with 5.56 many in the military are starting to move away from a double tap. Guys would enter a room, shoot a bad guy twice and then scan for additional threats without first making sure bad guy #1 is down.

June 16th, 2006, 05:17 PM	#25
Jungle Work Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: South of Ol' Tascosa, two miles from water, twenty miles from Hell Posts: 207	Param02, What you have just summerized is the reason for finding the best training you can afford. In any intense situation you will REACT to it as you have been trained. The better your training, the better you will react. Most of the time, when the poopoo hits the osciallating propeller you do not have time to mentally index a whole lot of things, so you and your actions will revert back to how you have been trained. And that in the words of those who have been there is why training is so important. But that said, nothing beats actually doing it. Jungle Work