P95Carry

I'll wager we would have to allow for some luck!

By this I mean the degree of BG incapacitation we might expect - which may be way different from what we might hope for.

Imagine we fire only two COM - one shot traverses the stomach and apart from perforation does little else, misses spine too - bad news for BG but he ain't quitting yet!

Second shot hits close to mid line - lower sternum - too low to hit heart and too central to perforate aorta. BG is still well capable. Spine still intact.

OTOH - of those two shots, one could perforate aorta and second could perforate heart - maybe 5 - 10 seconds (worrying enough) and BG not down but - maybe shocked enough to be in trouble and soon out of the game. Spinal hit too inclusive within those two could also have him down even if not out.

So much would depend on IMO the luck factor as to whether enough damage can be done - we are after all concerned with stopping the threat. This predicates I think the dictum of going to slide lock - rather than 2 COM - ''and assess''. Whether under severe stress a ''lights out'' head shot can even be effectively administered is perhaps debatable too.

So what I am saying is - the sometimes quoted ''2 shots may be enough'' - is maybe not enough at all - and thus some semblance of reasonable capacity is useful.

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Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."

If a BG dies as the result of pointing a gun at me, then he has merely succumbed to an occupational hazard of being a thug

HotGuns

What almost never gets discussed when shooting is the state of mind that the perp is in...and it does make a difference.

Drugs,alcohol,stress,rage,fear, all of them can make someone that wants to kill you for whatever reason, very hard to stop.

In my way of thinking, its better to keep shooting until the threat stops. If that requires shooting to slide lock, reloading and shooting again...so be it.

Bud White

+1 to that

P95Carry

Excellent point HG and one I should have made.

Of course, physiologically speaking, if the damage is adequate even the PCP addict should drop. But it does seem almost super human acts are carried out by folks well spaced on ''stuff''.

__________________
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."

If a BG dies as the result of pointing a gun at me, then he has merely succumbed to an occupational hazard of being a thug

gunthorp

The double tap has gotten many killed. Shoot 'em to the ground? In the time it takes me to fall to the ground I can empty more than a hi-cap. I practice movement off the line of force to cover with a quick five shot string (I call a pent) rising from the pelvis to the head, then scan for more trouble before the reload. Another CHRIS thread that makes you go hmmmm?

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Don't dither. The nick of time comes just before the moment lost.

Hunting Coyotes

Hotguns,

I agree. What ever it takes to stop the threat. Just don't stop too long or hesitate to assess how efective your shots have been. When the BG is no longer in your sights and no longer a threat,stop shooting. We shoot to stop...we shoot to live.

Rugerman

I think it is alot like a fistfight. when I was a kid and my father taught me how to protect myself. Other kids that would throw one punch and then back off. My father taught me to go in punching until the other guy was no longer a threat. I think the same applies here.

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George Washington: "A free people ought to be armed."

Sweatnbullets

As part of the threat focused skills that we teach, we train our students to be able to make hits all a long their draw stroke, whether that be one handed or two handed.

In the two handed method, the shots are fired as soon as the hands come together (count 3.) We continue to shoot as we extend up and out. I consistantly get 4-5 hits zippering up the thoracic cavity before I reach full extention (at logical distances.) If the head shot is still there it is taken immediately, but requires a shift in the focal point. The focal shift goes from the threat to the sights for the cranial ocular cavity.

One handed we work with the elbow up/elbow down drawstroke. This is the fastest way that I have ever seen to get hits on the threat. The weapon is drawn from the holster (elbow up) and immediately oriented towards the threat by crashing the elbow back down onto the hip area (elbow down.) The shots are taken as soon as the elbow makes contact with the body. This is basically the FAS 1/2 hip. The shots are taken as you extend up and out through the draw stroke, through 3/4 hip, through point shoulder, and up to line of sight. Once again the focal plane is shifted from the threat, to the sights for the cranial ocular cavity, if the threat is still there. Once again this a 4-5 shot zipper, but this one runs from abdomen to upper thoracic cavity, before the sighted head shot.

The old shoot two and assess simply does not make any sense. The training of oneself to drop down "hard to the gaurd" could be ingraining something that could cost you your life. Shoot until you have eliminated the threat. You do not have to lower your gun to see if the threat is still a threat. It will be plain to see without putting yourself in a disadvantaged position.

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http://fightfocusedconcepts.com/home

Situations dictate strategy, strategy dictates tactics, and tactics dictate techniques.

Roger Phillips, Suarez International Specialist Instructor

QKShooter

The old shoot two and assess simply does not make any sense.

If the head shot is still there it is taken immediately, but requires a shift in the focal point. The focal shift goes from the threat to the sights for the cranial ocular cavity.

__________________

Liberty/Tyranny
___________________________
Ain't That A Shame! Be Happy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OG3u...1&feature=fvwp

gddyup

I like the "stitch" technique posted by sweatnbullets. If you can get a round or two off into the pelvic area of the oncoming attacker, his state of mind may not matter if you can deliver those shots into that pelvic area. If you can put rounds in there, state of mind makes no difference if the BG simply cant physically walk anymore. Shatter something in the pelvic region as part of putting rounds on target could make the difference.

__________________
Firefighter/EMT

"For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected will never know" - T.R.