jwkimber45

+1 Well put

dr_cmg

Robert Heinlein, the late science fiction writer, put it simply, "An armed society is a polite society." Part of what makes us polite, respectful, and even tempered is the responsibility that we bear by having a weapon on our person. Another part of what causes us to be that way is the realization that any person we come in contact with could be carrying as well. Sheeple never see this and sometimes engage in behavior that we find stupid and repugnant. They think that they are safe and that the state (meaning national, state, and local governments) is there to protect them. Then they are surprised for a few seconds when they overstep the bounds of propriety and someone who knows the score responses with force.

Chris, good thread and a very good reminder. Something that I work on not just because I carry, but also because it is sensible it: to quit fighting battles that aren't worth winning. Like Country85 said:

__________________
George

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. Albert Einstein

elshadow001

Wisdom and Peace comes with age.

The older we get the more mellow we become.

and so on.

Maybee not everyone - but most of us.

Old Chief

Safety; Safety; Safety. First, Last and Always. There is absolutely no room for ego. When I carry, which is when I am awake, I do not want the world looking at me and my arms. I wish to appear so "normal" as to attract the attention of no one, no way, no how.

Bags

The 1st time I drove to the range with my handgun next to me, I gave more space between cars, drove slower, and generally had a more relaxed attitude behind the wheel.

I HAD been one to get a small case of road rage every now and again. With a deadly weapon next to me, I knew I could not let my temper or furstration come into play. Its not worth it and its my responsibility to keep a level head.

This is when I realized how CC'ing would be. I can't be a superhero or a tough guy. I can't get caught up in some BS like a bar fight or random shouting match with another driver.

KC135

Anyone who carries owes themselves a read of this editorial:

The Dangers Of Intervention, by Evan Marshall

It can be found at www.stoppingpower.net in the editorial section.

__________________
Keep the shotgun handy!!

Rugerman

I am ten times more calm, cool and collective where I would have got upset at bad drivers I just smile and wave now.

__________________
George Washington: "A free people ought to be armed."

P95Carry

KC - the link for editorial seems to be a no go today. Any link direct to the article?

__________________
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."

If a BG dies as the result of pointing a gun at me, then he has merely succumbed to an occupational hazard of being a thug

Redneck Repairs

There has been a lot of space devoted in the Stopping Power Message Board and other message boards to the presentation of hypothetical situations and a request for solutions. The problem with such imaginary situations is that there is none of the untidiness and ambiguity that exists in the real world.

Please understand that I’m not ridiculing those who present such situations or those who attempt to solve them. I consider those who post on this board as friends I haven’t met yet. As your friend I feel a moral responsibility to share my observations based on my actual experiences in real incidents. I don’t want to see good guys and gals get their selves in a jam by jumping into situations that are unclear and fraught with danger.

Let me be perfectly frank. Those who think that intervention will bring fame, honors, glory, etc., are delusional. I once prevented the rape of a woman by butt stroking her attacker with a shotgun while he was in the act of penetrating her. Weeks later she made an excessive force complaint against me. She thought I should have been more restrained in my behavior! On another occasion, my partner and I chased a holdup man into a store where he took a woman hostage. He then threatened to kill her (he had just shot two people in a bank and we believed him!). My partner shot the bad guys three times. One of those bullets slightly grazed the woman’s finger and she sued us for endangering her!

If the rescued individual doesn’t make life miserable for you in the courts, they just might kill you. I’m aware of four instances where officers responded to a domestic violence situation and when the wife realized the breadwinner was going to jail she assaulted and killed her would-be rescuers.

My Tac Unit partner and I backed up a precinct unit on a domestic assault arrest. As the husband was being handcuffed the wife disappeared down the hallway. I motioned to my partner and we followed her down the hall with guns drawn. We found her in the bedroom loading a Winchester .30-.30 lever action rifle. We quickly disarmed and cuffed her. As we brought her into the living room a precinct sergeant ordered us to let her go. When we refused to do so, he attempted to remove her from our custody. When told him that if he didn’t back off we would arrest him, he left to complain to our supervisors.

If ingratitude isn’t enough we need to understand that things are almost never what they seem. What appears to be a car jacking may be the attempt by a father to recover a child from a noncustodial mother. Our intervention may not only be ill advised but we may be acting in violation of a court order. The fact that we are unaware of a court order will not save the day.

Even if the situation is exactly as it appears and you’re even in accordance with the law, you need to understand one simple fact-the law is what the local prosecutor says it is. Do you really want to spend 7 years in jail waiting for an appeal to be heard and your conviction overturned?

I once got sued for in excess of $100,000 for handcuffing a suspect. The city settled out of court even though my actions were totally legal. Anybody who read about this settlement in the paper would assume I was guilty of inappropriate behavior or some illegality. The city paid the settlement and provided legal counsel. Had I been acting as a private citizen I would have subjected my family to decades of poverty in order to pay the judgment and attorney fees.

Situations that involve significant injury or death are frightenly expensive. My partners and I were sued for $17.5 million dollars in the fatal shooting of a holdup man. The legal fees alone would have run into seven figures. We were accused of being blood thirsty, trigger-happy racist cops. The media conveniently forgot we had intervened in the severe beating and robbery of an elderly woman.

All that being said and experienced, I continued to intervene. However, people should be reminded I was a cop-it was my job. I spent 20 years going in harms way for total strangers. Would I do that today? Probably not. I no longer have the deep pockets of the City of Detroit behind me. Sound callous? Well, would you be willing to jeopardize everything you own and your family’s security for a total stranger? Would you be willing to lose your home, your cars, and your retirement to play Knight of the Round Table?

Apparently some people are certainly willing to fantasize about intervening in a hypothetical situation. Some may consider this harmless musing, but I find it troubling. Tactical planning involves assessing all the potential problems carefully and realistically looking at the cost of such intervention. Role-playing or gaming looks at it through rose colored glasses and ignores the cold hard reality of a person’s involvement in a deadly force event.

I carry a gun to protect myself and the people I love from the Monsters that roam the earth. When I’m away from those that mean everything to me, I carry so I can return to them. Are there circumstances where I would intervene to help a stranger? Yes, but such intervention would be on my terms at my pace. I am not going to jump into a situation with gun drawn.

Rather I would seek cover and carefully evaluate the totality of the circumstance. When I was convinced I knew what is really going on I would respond with the minimum amount of force necessary whether that required drawing my cell phone or my pistol. If all we have is a pistol we have severely limited options. I carry three pistols, oc, cell phone, and a flashlight, and I am a PPCT Defensive Tactics Instructor. I am willing and trained to respond with the appropriate level of force even if that is “only” a command voice. I understand the force continuum and know what the appropriate level force is in a given situation. Ignorance of such critical parameters can have horrific consequences.

Those who think the mere display of a weapon will stop hostilities are naïve in the extreme. The same people we will be confronting know what an appropriate level of force is and when we make outlandish or unjustified threats we’ll show our true colors. These people can tell when we’re serious and we will quickly find ourselves disarmed and in real trouble.

Again, we need to avoid rushing in where Angels fear to tread. Remember the most endangered species is good guys and gals. Go with God.

Evan

there you go or better chris lol

direct url is http://www.stoppingpower.net/editori...tervention.asp

__________________
Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

P95Carry

Bob - many thx

__________________
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."

If a BG dies as the result of pointing a gun at me, then he has merely succumbed to an occupational hazard of being a thug