JerryM

I am not so sure that the LEO would fire before telling you to drop the gun. I wonder if there are any statistics?
But it seems much easier just to make sure the gun is either on the ground or in your holster with your arms raised.

In any case I am persuaded that CHL badges and anything else to try to identify yourself while armed when an officer gets on the scene is a bad idea.

Best,
Jerry

SIXTO

No stats needed, I'll tell you right now they would. The "Freeze Police" or "Drop the gun" is a thing of Hollywood. Sure it does happen, but in an active shoot, anything goes.

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Bark'n

I would say that in general, It has everything to do with the actions of the man with the gun and the perceived threat the officer feels at the time. Either a threat towards himself, or some other officer on the scene, or a third innocent party.

Now, it's my understanding LEO's are trained be reasonably restrained in dealing with a subject holding a gun in their hands. It's their job to deal with armed subjects and not just shoot everyone on sight!

HOWEVER... In general, officers are held close to the same standards of using deadly force as a civilian. There has to be an immediate threat of death or serious injury for them to justified in shooting someone.

An unknown person holding a gun is pretty damn close to meeting that definition!

If the officer is shouting commands to "drop the gun", or "don't move," or "get on the ground," and you don't immediately comply with... well guess what? You're probably going to get shot! And the officer will be justified in doing so!

You were an armed person, brandishing a gun, who failed to obey a lawful command! The LEO MUST assume you have some other nefarious intent by not following his lawful command. Maybe you were scheming on how to get the upper hand on him.

If you were told to drop the gun, and instead you decide to try and whip out your ccw credentials... well, you're probably going to get shot.

It will be of little consequence that you were in fact the complainant and good guy, but just chose instead to exercise your god given right to be stupid! He will still be justified in shooting said stupid person.

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-Bark'n
Semper Fi

"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, will prey on those of us who without one, would surely perish."

JerryM

I do not believe that if one were holding a gun on the BG, and not waving it around, and dropped the gun when ordered to do so, there would be no shooting. I do personally know a lot of LEOs and not one is trigger happy. Just follow their orders. they are no-nonsense in such situations but would not shoot immediately if a person was holding a gun and not pointing at them if that person followed their orders.

But it is not an issue with me as I would not have a gun in my hand when they drove up.

Regards,
Jerry

Bark'n

Well, I'm with you Jerry in that I'm not going to have my gun in my hand when they show up... And I am going to follow every command to the letter and immediately.

Just remember, If you are holding your attacker at gunpoint when they arrive... You know you are the good guy, and you know who the bad guy is...

But the LEO's are not going to assume anything and probably not going to take anyones word on who's who when they first arrive and one party is still holding a gun.

Sometimes it's obvious, but often times, it clearly isn't.

That's why off duty or undercover LEO's continue to get shot by responding officers at shooting incidents. Mainly because instead of immediately obeying the responding duty officers commands, they instead try to ID them self as an off duty officer or undercover officer.

One thing you can never know is the state of mind, level of competency, amount of training, or years of experience the responding LEO has when he arrives on scene to such an incident. It's best to follow his commands to the letter. If he didn't shoot you on sight... all he is trying to do is make the scene safe, to his satisfaction. And one thing is certain... His adrenaline is going to be surging too!

Everything else can be sorted out later!

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-Bark'n
Semper Fi

"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, will prey on those of us who without one, would surely perish."

SIXTO

I didnt mean to imply anything about trigger happy, but its true when I say anything goes during an active shoot. Adrenaline, fear etc. does funny things to otherwise level headed, rational, well trained people.

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HotGuns

I cover this in our CHL classes. If it isnt being taught everywhere, it ought to be.

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AR. CHL Instr.

To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. Thomas Jefferson

JerryM

I certainly agree with that, and it behooves each of us to be aware of it.

When a cop tells me to do something I will do it. He is the boss at that time, and if he is wrong we can settle it later with the chief, but he is in charge at a traffic stop and especially at a shooting. I don't remember the last time I had an encounter with a cop, but he is the boss.

I agree with the thinking that at the side of the road in a tense situation is not the time to argue the Constitution. :)

Regards,
Jerry

rottkeeper

LEOs don't have time to investigate who's who when they pull up, the first job is to neutralize the situation then collect info. If you have not re-holstered you are still part if the problem as far as they are concerned. Ask any LEO and they will say the most important part of the job is to go home alive every night. I dead cop helps nobody.

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NRA Member

mulle46

As a LEO myself, I know a lot of LEO'S. I can't say that I wouldn't shoot someone who is not pointing a weapon at me, but is pointing a weapon at someone else. As a LEO, we have more of a responsibility to act than a CCW holder. To me, just because the BG isn't pointing the weapon at me, doesn't mean I would not discharge my weapon if the BG is threatening someone else. OMO

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