CHL Badges - Page 21

civic2nr86 · October 27th, 2008, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongRider

May I ask have any of the advocates of these Wanna Be Badges ever been in a life and death situation?
The reason I ask is one old cliche keeps coming to mind as I wade through all the rationales for a Wanna Be Badge
Keep
It
Simple
Stupid
We train and practice to condition our bodies and minds. Our lives depend upon immediate instinctive intuitive reactions in the midst of the screaming smoke blood and stench. To the identify threat(s) focus on the target move off the X fire check your six fire move fire move reload. Where in any of that is there is there time to get that precious Wanna Be Badge? What are you going to do with it? Choose to shot one handed so you can hold it over your head screaming I am a good guy? If so I can guarantee you that NO ONE will care NO ONE will even see it. All they will see is GUN. They will not be able to tell if you are black white or an alien. They will not be able to tell if your hair is green red black brown or bald. They will not see if you have red polka dot jeans or a Louis Raphel suit. All they will know is that you have a HUGE GUN about a 150 caliber with a two foot barrel. If you dont believe that ask the LEO here or better yet go read the police reports of people who have been robbed at gun point. In any one robbery you rarely if ever find any two descriptions that match.
Or do you plan on showing it to LEO when they arrive to an active shooting call sirens blaring adrenaline pumped. When they order you to drop the gun, to get on your knees and you reach for your Wanna Be Badge located where people carry their gun, what do you think will happen? They are going to run up and give you the keys to the city? Or will they pump you full of lead?
Look at the forum here there must be a couple of hundred years of combat experience and knowledge here. Men who have bled and shed blood. Men who have seen the horror. Both here and abroad. NOT ONE advocates the Wanna Be Badge. Maybe there is a reason?
I am not so stuck on stupid as to insist that my delusional fantasy imaginings of what it might be like over rides what experienced men universally tell me it is a bad idea.
But hey if you know it all go for it. Its a free country. If you do. Can you will me your guns? I'll cut a notch in them in your memory.

Why would you wave it above your head? Cops don't wave it, why should you? Just keep it concealed with your gun? You need your gun, the badge may show? Bystanders may or may not see it, but if it CAN buy you more time, why the animosity? Sounds like it is in your head that everyone that has it will flaunt it and show it and wave it all around. Sounds like everyone will try to play wanna be cop or hero or what not. What do you suggest then?

What does all your training have to do with the man that is about to shoot you thinking ur the BG? Yea you have training, does he?

Im just playing devil's advocate here but you are getting all bent out of shape, this reasoning is perfectly sound to me, not saying that I would order one, but anything helps, and if these people want to flaunt it around then that is just darwinism waiting to happen. There are still people who are discrete about it and would probably only want to use it to stack the odds in their favor to prevent being shot.

Things happen and it happens fast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenInColo

IMHO, badges are for LEOs; they earned them and they keep earning them every day.

My training will 'kick in' if it becomes necessary.

What about the other guy's training, or lack of?

tns0038 · October 27th, 2008, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by civic2nr86

Take this for example, you are the first responder to a robbery at the mall or something. You fire upon the BG, what is to stop someone else from shooting you when all they heard was a gunshot an came to investigate? Or the other way around, you walk into an establishment right as the GG just shot the BG, if you are untrained, you'll most likely draw upon the GG and in return he'll think you are the BG's accomplice and shoot at you as well. This could happen in any scenario where LE are not first on scene.

Why in the world are you a “first responder”. You’re not an LEO, and while you have the authority to carry a concealed weapon you do not have Law Enforcement Authority.

Sure there may be a time and place where you have no choice but get involved. But in your scenario, I can assure you, I’ll be headed the other direction.

laeckcrov · October 27th, 2008, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tns0038

Why in the world are you a “first responder”. You’re not an LEO, and while you have the authority to carry a concealed weapon you do not have Law Enforcement Authority.

Sure there may be a time and place where you have no choice but get involved. But in your scenario, I can assure you, I’ll be headed the other direction.

+1 as a CHL holder you should not be a responder to any situation you are not immediately involved in. By this i mean if you aren't in the room when SHTF, or directly involved, you sure as heck shouldn't run in with guns blazing. The only responders should be LEOs and EMTs, LEOs to put holes in the BG, and EMTs to patch the holes in anyone else. I am not saying if you are in a convenience store and SHTF, to sneak out the back and run away, but when you are across the street from the same convenience store and you hear shots, don't run in.

If i were in a SHTF scenario, and had to shoot an armed BG, and some dude ran in with his gun out, first thing I'm going to do is make sure he's not LEO, second thing I'm going to do is shoot him.

Your gun is a defensive tool, not an offensive weapon

Toting a badge around makes you a wanna-be offensive weapon, or responder, not a defender.

JD · October 27th, 2008, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by civic2nr86

I know this thread is a couple months old, but I did not want to start another.

There are a lot of animosity against CCW Badges and what not, and I am not very fond of it as well.

Many see this as a problem with LEO's but there are plenty of scenario where it can prevent you from being shot by another armed civilian.

Take this for example, you are the first responder to a robbery at the mall or something. You fire upon the BG, what is to stop someone else from shooting you when all they heard was a gunshot an came to investigate? Or the other way around, you walk into an establishment right as the GG just shot the BG, if you are untrained, you'll most likely draw upon the GG and in return he'll think you are the BG's accomplice and shoot at you as well. This could happen in any scenario where LE are not first on scene.

When you have to use your firearm in public, its not just the LEO's you have to worry about. What is worst than getting shot at by a LEO for saving someone's life? Getting shot by another CCW holder, thinking your the BG.

For all the thoughts and info on why CHL Badges are a bad idea, you can reference the thread: CHL Badges it's closed for further replies, but has been made a sticky for reference as to why we don't like this asinine topic.

All other posts that were posted in response to civic's question have been removed, after a brief review, I will add them to the closed CHL Badge thread that I referenced above and it will remain locked.

Frisco · October 27th, 2008, 06:21 PM

Yet another piece of faux tacticoolgear for the wannabe...almost, I say, ALMOST as bad as the guy who wears a t-shirt with POLICE printed on it, black BDU's, and drives a de-commissioned Crown Vic from an auction sale.

old grunt · October 27th, 2008, 06:30 PM

I'm Retired so I'm "lucky enough" to have a retired ID Card and a dupe shield. Having said that I try my hardest to be a "gray man" and blend into the background and NOT advertise the fact I'm carrying. If I have to let an officer know it will be verbally loud("I'm armed and a retired officer"etc.)with my hands EMPTY and in PLAIN SIGHT. The ID or CCW Permit will be shown when and how that officer asks AFTER I comply with his directions. It's not a bad concept, but cops are looking for shields and correct terms(NY>>>"I'm on the job!!")to identify off-duty or UC cops and are NOT tuned into CCW holders. Just keep it simple!!

CTurner91 · October 27th, 2008, 06:55 PM

I wouldn't carry a badge, but I can see why others might.. at the very least flashing it might keep the first on scene Officer from shooting you on sight.

laeckcrov · October 27th, 2008, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CTurner91

I wouldn't carry a badge, but I can see why others might.. at the very least flashing it might keep the first on scene Officer from shooting you on sight.

As has been said before, an LEO doesn't charge into the scene shooting everything in sight. Even if you have a gun in your hand, unless you are giving the LEO some idea that you have an intention of hurting someone with it, you aren't getting shot.

Ridgeline · October 27th, 2008, 09:21 PM

I just don't understand why anyone would want to tip their hand that they are carrying... to an LEO, the typical sheep, and for sure not a BG?

dmorris68 · October 27th, 2008, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laeckcrov

As has been said before, an LEO doesn't charge into the scene shooting everything in sight. Even if you have a gun in your hand, unless you are giving the LEO some idea that you have an intention of hurting someone with it, you aren't getting shot.

It has also been said many times: LEO's don't respond to a shooting and look for badges -- bad guys can easily get official looking badges too, the local pawn shops are overflowing with all kinds of badges that you can't read from more than 5-10 feet away. If they respond and see an unrecognized, excited individual with a gun who does not immediately stand down or convincingly identify themselves as good guys within about a fraction of a second, then they will quite likely shoot regardless of whether a badge is visible or not. There have been some undercover/off-duty officers shot on the job because responding patrol units didn't know they were LEO, and I'm sure they were identifying themselves as such.

October 27th, 2008, 06:30 PM	#206
old grunt Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 607	K.I.S.S. I'm Retired so I'm "lucky enough" to have a retired ID Card and a dupe shield. Having said that I try my hardest to be a "gray man" and blend into the background and NOT advertise the fact I'm carrying. If I have to let an officer know it will be verbally loud("I'm armed and a retired officer"etc.)with my hands EMPTY and in PLAIN SIGHT. The ID or CCW Permit will be shown when and how that officer asks AFTER I comply with his directions. It's not a bad concept, but cops are looking for shields and correct terms(NY>>>"I'm on the job!!")to identify off-duty or UC cops and are NOT tuned into CCW holders. Just keep it simple!! __________________ "We deal in lead friend">Steve McQueen The Magnificent Seven 82d Abn(1983-86)OIF 2007-08 Glock 19&26/ Colt Gov't & OM Retired NYS LEO / NRA Life Member Palin 2012......GO SARAH !! "no kidding,gun slinging,spurs hitting the floor"

October 27th, 2008, 09:21 PM	#209
Ridgeline VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 2,024	I just don't understand why anyone would want to tip their hand that they are carrying... to an LEO, the typical sheep, and for sure not a BG? __________________ "Eternity is Too Long to be Wrong" Texas CHL Instructor & Holder Life Member NRA Member TSRA

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October 27th, 2008, 06:21 PM	#205
Frisco Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Arizona Posts: 43	Yet another piece of faux tacticoolgear for the wannabe...almost, I say, ALMOST as bad as the guy who wears a t-shirt with POLICE printed on it, black BDU's, and drives a de-commissioned Crown Vic from an auction sale.

October 27th, 2008, 06:55 PM	#207
CTurner91 Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: California Posts: 119	I wouldn't carry a badge, but I can see why others might.. at the very least flashing it might keep the first on scene Officer from shooting you on sight.