The "man" and myself - Page 4

SleepingZ · September 21st, 2007, 08:22 AM

The OP was in AZ, and was also on private property. Can he be arrested and CONVICTED for CCW while on private property?

SIXTO · September 21st, 2007, 10:11 AM

Generally no, but I have no idea what AZ codes says. Remember though, he was first seen in a parked vehivle... on the street.

SilenceDoGood · September 21st, 2007, 05:09 PM

The cop had NO IDEA I HAD A WEAPON ON ME, or ANY clue what i was doing in my truck. For all he knew i was getting somthing out of my backpack while i was in my truck. In az you only have to be 18 to open carry, so the only real problem was i was CCW'ing 2 feet from the road to my friends yard. I called the tempe police yesterday and there was "no narrative" as to why i was stopped.

mcp1810 · September 21st, 2007, 05:36 PM

Having worked the other side of the radio for fifteen years I am not surprised at all that there is no narrative. I would say better than ninety percent of the time that my officers called out with a suspicious situation/subject there would be no narrative. All we would enter into the CAD was the car number and the location of the stop. If the officer ran any wanted or stolen checks that would be in the event history not in the narrative. About the only time we really put stuff in the narrative is if things evolved into a pursuit of some kind. Also, if the officer ran you before the event was created in the computer that would not show up unless they ran a unit history on his unit for the date/time in question.
That being said there could be any number of reasons the officer took interest in you that we don't know about. They could have recently had several stolen vehicles recovered in that area. They could have had a recent increase in larcenies from vehicles in that area. Your vehicle could have matched a look out they had from another incident. At this point we just don't know.

ttpete · September 21st, 2007, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcp1810

Having worked the other side of the radio for fifteen years I am not surprised at all that there is no narrative. I would say better than ninety percent of the time that my officers called out with a suspicious situation/subject there would be no narrative. All we would enter into the CAD was the car number and the location of the stop. If the officer ran any wanted or stolen checks that would be in the event history not in the narrative. About the only time we really put stuff in the narrative is if things evolved into a pursuit of some kind. Also, if the officer ran you before the event was created in the computer that would not show up unless they ran a unit history on his unit for the date/time in question.
That being said there could be any number of reasons the officer took interest in you that we don't know about. They could have recently had several stolen vehicles recovered in that area. They could have had a recent increase in larcenies from vehicles in that area. Your vehicle could have matched a look out they had from another incident. At this point we just don't know.

So your department allows you to shackle someone and then not have to document that fact? I find that kind of interesting. You, and many others, may think that detention is not arrest, but my attorney thinks differently..........

rocky · September 21st, 2007, 07:58 PM

ttpete. I think you misunderstand. LE are required to document all interactions with citizens. Atleast my dept did. It may not be a full blown report or narrative, but daily log sheets and contact info is written and recorded.
A detention in cuffs is NOT an arrest. Please read up on laws before making assumptions of what is or not legal arrest. some states may have varied laws, but MI does allow LE to detain and handcuff you and it is NOT considered an arrest.

Echo_Four · September 21st, 2007, 10:12 PM

Just to throw it out there, if you were CCWing 2 feet from the road- you probably weren't on private property. The right of way tends to extend several feet from the road. On my property it is closer to 10 feet.

And as a final note on this subject- if your attorney thinks that you being cuffed and detained is an arrest you really need a new attorney- that one isn't fit to practice law.

fed_wif_a_sig · September 21st, 2007, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilenceDoGood

The cop had NO IDEA I HAD A WEAPON ON ME, or ANY clue what i was doing in my truck. For all he knew i was getting somthing out of my backpack while i was in my truck. In az you only have to be 18 to open carry, so the only real problem was i was CCW'ing 2 feet from the road to my friends yard. I called the tempe police yesterday and there was "no narrative" as to why i was stopped.

Again, the officer did not need to know for sure you were handleing a weapon, only acting in a manner enough to raise his suspiscions. Did you check to see if he ran your plates? I doubt it, but I am willing to bet he did....kinda like this, sees you dorking around in the front of a truck, you spot cop and react because you have a weapon your loading in your hands (based upon your statement). Officer runs your plates, realizes your not from the neighborhood, turns around and decides to check and see whats up. Its called an investigative stop, very routine and very legal. He walks up and you inform him your carrying a weapon, which you have illegally concealed. He secures you (the thing that makes the weapon go boom), your weapon and checkes the vehicle to insure that no further criminal activity is being and decides that even though you've committing a state felony (and yes even if you were in your friends house, he initially observed you on the public streets). Instead of you being indignant, you should be very thankful that the officer cut you a break and write him a letter and tell him so (but that would mean admitting you were wrong and he cut you a serious break which would have prevented you from ever obtaining a concealed carry permit).

In response to writing in detail about the contact, I have never worked for an agency that required a summary of a contact made in the field be logged. Also this actually is another break that you received, because if a note was entered in the data systems, and it was pulled up later in your life that you were investigated by police for illegally carrying a concealed weapon.

You might have noticed that I have made it clear that what you did was a crime, and after a quick check of Westlaw, in AZ it is a criminal act for someone to carry a concealed weapon without the appropriate permit, even carrying it unloaded in a backpack with the ammo in the same bag is illegal. You might have been legal to have it in plain view, but the instant you covered it, even if you were on your friends property (its his private property, not yours).

Finally, I do commend you on your honesty to the officer, and it is more than likely the reason that you were not arrested. However, if your smart you'll realize that you did in fact make a mistake, but also keep this in mind, if you decide to pursue the issue for what you feel was your unjust detension, remember this, a crime was committed in the presence of a law enforcement officer, and the statute of limitations if I read correctly is about a year. That means, that the charge can be filed up to a year after the incident and you will then get your chance to tell a jury that "ya I broke the law, but he shouldnt have cuffed me". My grand-dad always use to say, "Don't kick a gift horse in the mouth".

mcp1810 · September 22nd, 2007, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ttpete

So your department allows you to shackle someone and then not have to document that fact? I find that kind of interesting. You, and many others, may think that detention is not arrest, but my attorney thinks differently..........

The department I worked for is in Maryland, and the OP was in AZ so the law in Michigan is irrelevant. Under Maryland law officers do not have to document every time they put cuffs on someone. For certain offenses the officers on the scene have a lot of discretion to exercise. Some cases they have the option of taking you into custody, or just issuing you a must appear citation. Or for some minor offenses they might even just explain the violation ( so you know better next time ) and send you on your way.

Echo_Four · September 22nd, 2007, 12:53 AM

Well said Fed. Of course, there is no need to muddy the police bashing water with something as mundane as facts.

September 21st, 2007, 10:11 AM	#32
SIXTO VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Here and There Posts: 10,080	Generally no, but I have no idea what AZ codes says. Remember though, he was first seen in a parked vehivle... on the street. __________________ In a land of sheep, even a toothless wolf is king. Wake Up! The zombie invasion has begun years ago.

September 21st, 2007, 05:09 PM	#33
SilenceDoGood Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 566	The cop had NO IDEA I HAD A WEAPON ON ME, or ANY clue what i was doing in my truck. For all he knew i was getting somthing out of my backpack while i was in my truck. In az you only have to be 18 to open carry, so the only real problem was i was CCW'ing 2 feet from the road to my friends yard. I called the tempe police yesterday and there was "no narrative" as to why i was stopped. __________________ "A government is like fire, a handy servant, but a dangerous master." -- George Washington

September 21st, 2007, 07:58 PM	#36
rocky Senior Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: MI Posts: 11,767	ttpete. I think you misunderstand. LE are required to document all interactions with citizens. Atleast my dept did. It may not be a full blown report or narrative, but daily log sheets and contact info is written and recorded. A detention in cuffs is NOT an arrest. Please read up on laws before making assumptions of what is or not legal arrest. some states may have varied laws, but MI does allow LE to detain and handcuff you and it is NOT considered an arrest. __________________ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson Nemo Me Impune Lacesset Link to my kydex builds:http://rocknloadkydex.blogspot.com/

September 21st, 2007, 10:12 PM	#37
Echo_Four Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,029	Just to throw it out there, if you were CCWing 2 feet from the road- you probably weren't on private property. The right of way tends to extend several feet from the road. On my property it is closer to 10 feet. And as a final note on this subject- if your attorney thinks that you being cuffed and detained is an arrest you really need a new attorney- that one isn't fit to practice law. __________________ "The only people I like besides my wife and children are Marines." - Lt. Col. Oliver North Firearm Facts Christian Warrior Ministries

September 22nd, 2007, 12:53 AM	#40
Echo_Four Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,029	Well said Fed. Of course, there is no need to muddy the police bashing water with something as mundane as facts. __________________ "The only people I like besides my wife and children are Marines." - Lt. Col. Oliver North Firearm Facts Christian Warrior Ministries

September 21st, 2007, 08:22 AM	#31
SleepingZ Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: ne Posts: 1,073	The OP was in AZ, and was also on private property. Can he be arrested and CONVICTED for CCW while on private property?

September 21st, 2007, 05:36 PM	#34
mcp1810 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 1,161	Having worked the other side of the radio for fifteen years I am not surprised at all that there is no narrative. I would say better than ninety percent of the time that my officers called out with a suspicious situation/subject there would be no narrative. All we would enter into the CAD was the car number and the location of the stop. If the officer ran any wanted or stolen checks that would be in the event history not in the narrative. About the only time we really put stuff in the narrative is if things evolved into a pursuit of some kind. Also, if the officer ran you before the event was created in the computer that would not show up unless they ran a unit history on his unit for the date/time in question. That being said there could be any number of reasons the officer took interest in you that we don't know about. They could have recently had several stolen vehicles recovered in that area. They could have had a recent increase in larcenies from vehicles in that area. Your vehicle could have matched a look out they had from another incident. At this point we just don't know.

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