Would you allow CCW on your property? - Page 8

peacefuljeffrey · December 9th, 2007, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raevan

I have a no Alcohol or Drugs policy on my property, all my friends know this.
If you come onto my property drunk or stoned you are asked to leave any way regardless if you are armed or not.

Does... does this become an issue a lot over there at your place?

I ask because I never even thought of having a "policy" about that: people simply don't show up at my house drunk/stoned...

Or is this just a hypothetical policy that you plan to have IF it ever becomes an issue?

fsufanaz · December 10th, 2007, 12:13 AM

Absolutely, I probably will carry on theirs so why should I have a problem with them carrying on mine.

Ed

raevan · December 10th, 2007, 02:03 AM

I have had people show up drunk and stoned, they have been asked to leave.
Drunk or stoned people cause trouble, which I don't care to get involved with.
I tell those who feel they need alcohol and or drugs to function to not bother visiting.
My Ex father-in-law wanted to go fishing with me in my canoe, I told him no beer or any other type alcoholic beverages while fishing, we weren't out even an hour and he wanted to go get a drink. Last time I fished with him.

rachilders · December 10th, 2007, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fsufanaz

Absolutely, I probably will carry on theirs so why should I have a problem with them carrying on mine.

Ed

ridurall · December 10th, 2007, 02:41 AM

I've got 420 acres SW of Mangum Oklahoma and most of my friends have a CCW Carrying a gun, fishing pole, riding a horse or ATV is about the only reason for being there. I do let one guy lease 400 of the acres and run some cattle since I sold my cattle 5 years ago but he does not hunt or carry and I get to hunt his property 3 miles from my house which is pretty handy. No one drinks or does drugs on my place and if they want to they won't be invited back. I'm pretty picky about who gets on my place and can't see any reason for someone I don't know to be on my place. If they are they are trespassing and will be arrested. My wife has a few friends that don't carry and that is ok with me. I probably wouldn't want to be around them if they did but I wouldn't prevent them from carrying. They just are not the 'type" to carry. I guess dingbat is a better term for them.

Echo_Four · December 10th, 2007, 04:05 AM

If I've invited someone into my home then I don't care if they're carrying. In fact, I'd be pretty surprised if someone I invited to my home wasn't carrying because the list of people that are invited to carry in my home is pretty small.

I am tempted to say that if I owned a business that did business with the public, I would post it. Not because I think it is the right thing to do but because it honestly offends me that so many people seem to think that a business owner's property isn't really private property. I firmly believe that any person has the right to control his property in any way he chooses. If that means he doesn't want people to be armed on that property, it is his right to ban weapons on that property. (I also have the right to not go there, which is a right I practice.) But, I know myself and I wouldn't be able to bring myself to do it~ just because I think it is a stupid policy to have.

peacefuljeffrey · December 10th, 2007, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Echo_Four

I am tempted to say that if I owned a business that did business with the public, I would post it. Not because I think it is the right thing to do but because it honestly offends me that so many people seem to think that a business owner's property isn't really private property. I firmly believe that any person has the right to control his property in any way he chooses. If that means he doesn't want people to be armed on that property, it is his right to ban weapons on that property. (I also have the right to not go there, which is a right I practice.) But, I know myself and I wouldn't be able to bring myself to do it~ just because I think it is a stupid policy to have.

So, if you ran a business, it would be one of the businesses that we here on DC would list as a "don't go there" business because it is posted "No Concealed Carry"?!

How can you justify that? Just because you want to flex your property rights? Why flex them in a way that you don't respect when others do it?

Or do you actually respect the decision (what I would call the nonsensical, unreasoned, unreasonable decision) to ban concealed carry from businesses that are open to the public? I can't tell, because you've really given two different answers here...

Boy oh boy. I'm looking forward to the answer to this one...

Echo_Four · December 10th, 2007, 06:40 AM

Honestly, I wouldn't post it. I do not believe that it is the right thing to do. And no, I really don't respect the decision. But I do respect the RIGHT to make that decision. The property belongs to the property owner, and they have the right to do with it as they please- just like you have the right to set the rules in your house. It offends me (and I think it makes every one of us look bad) when people decide that they do not have to abide by the desires of the rightful property owner just because they happen to want to do something else.

peacefuljeffrey · December 10th, 2007, 07:00 AM

I have a different view of it, but I'm glad you said that you would not post a "no guns" policy.

See, a "no guns" policy will not keep bad people with guns out. So it serves no useful purpose. That's why I go in with my gun anyway: I know I'm not a threat, and no one will even know about my gun -- unless I need it to save lives!

Meanwhile, since it's my right to carry a gun, I view their "policy" as an intrusion on my rights. More than just an intrusion, it's a grievous insult. People would not go into a business if the business posted a rule like, "You are forbidden to speak about subjects X, Y and Z on our property." Why should they accept a limitation on their right to protect themselves? When I go into a place that says "no guns," and I go in armed, I am in fact secretly demonstrating my contempt for their stupidity and for their insult leveled at me and other responsible gun carriers.

Echo_Four · December 10th, 2007, 07:11 AM

See, that is the attitude I have a problem with. I agree 100 percent that a sign will not keep a bad guy from coming into the business with a gun. And you're correct you do have a right to carry a gun. But as you know, your rights end when they begin to infringe upon the rights of someone else. And while you can say that posting the sign is their "policy" it is also their way of telling you that your gun is not welcome on their property. It is not public property, it is private property- no different than your home. They allow the public to enter, just as you can allow people to enter your home. But, you can regulate what people bring into your home, and the business owner has the right to regulate what comes into their business.

I know it isn't the popular thing to say in the forums. But, your desire to carry a gun doesn't trump anyone's property rights.

December 10th, 2007, 12:13 AM	#72
fsufanaz Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Not in AZ anymore Posts: 158	Absolutely, I probably will carry on theirs so why should I have a problem with them carrying on mine. Ed __________________ US Navy Retired Silent Service The real test of a man is not when he plays the role he wants for himself, but when he plays the role destiny has for him. Vaclav Havel

December 10th, 2007, 02:41 AM	#75
ridurall Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: SW Oklahoma Posts: 735	I've got 420 acres SW of Mangum Oklahoma and most of my friends have a CCW Carrying a gun, fishing pole, riding a horse or ATV is about the only reason for being there. I do let one guy lease 400 of the acres and run some cattle since I sold my cattle 5 years ago but he does not hunt or carry and I get to hunt his property 3 miles from my house which is pretty handy. No one drinks or does drugs on my place and if they want to they won't be invited back. I'm pretty picky about who gets on my place and can't see any reason for someone I don't know to be on my place. If they are they are trespassing and will be arrested. My wife has a few friends that don't carry and that is ok with me. I probably wouldn't want to be around them if they did but I wouldn't prevent them from carrying. They just are not the 'type" to carry. I guess dingbat is a better term for them. __________________ Life member NRA since 1983 I normally carry a Sig Pro .40 in a Crossbreed IWB but when necessary will switch to: Baby Eagle .40 W/Kramer holster Bersa Thunder380 Kel-Tec P3AT Skyy 9mm

December 10th, 2007, 04:05 AM	#76
Echo_Four Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,029	If I've invited someone into my home then I don't care if they're carrying. In fact, I'd be pretty surprised if someone I invited to my home wasn't carrying because the list of people that are invited to carry in my home is pretty small. I am tempted to say that if I owned a business that did business with the public, I would post it. Not because I think it is the right thing to do but because it honestly offends me that so many people seem to think that a business owner's property isn't really private property. I firmly believe that any person has the right to control his property in any way he chooses. If that means he doesn't want people to be armed on that property, it is his right to ban weapons on that property. (I also have the right to not go there, which is a right I practice.) But, I know myself and I wouldn't be able to bring myself to do it~ just because I think it is a stupid policy to have. __________________ "The only people I like besides my wife and children are Marines." - Lt. Col. Oliver North Firearm Facts Christian Warrior Ministries

December 10th, 2007, 06:40 AM	#78
Echo_Four Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,029	Honestly, I wouldn't post it. I do not believe that it is the right thing to do. And no, I really don't respect the decision. But I do respect the RIGHT to make that decision. The property belongs to the property owner, and they have the right to do with it as they please- just like you have the right to set the rules in your house. It offends me (and I think it makes every one of us look bad) when people decide that they do not have to abide by the desires of the rightful property owner just because they happen to want to do something else. __________________ "The only people I like besides my wife and children are Marines." - Lt. Col. Oliver North Firearm Facts Christian Warrior Ministries

December 10th, 2007, 07:11 AM	#80
Echo_Four Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,029	See, that is the attitude I have a problem with. I agree 100 percent that a sign will not keep a bad guy from coming into the business with a gun. And you're correct you do have a right to carry a gun. But as you know, your rights end when they begin to infringe upon the rights of someone else. And while you can say that posting the sign is their "policy" it is also their way of telling you that your gun is not welcome on their property. It is not public property, it is private property- no different than your home. They allow the public to enter, just as you can allow people to enter your home. But, you can regulate what people bring into your home, and the business owner has the right to regulate what comes into their business. I know it isn't the popular thing to say in the forums. But, your desire to carry a gun doesn't trump anyone's property rights. __________________ "The only people I like besides my wife and children are Marines." - Lt. Col. Oliver North Firearm Facts Christian Warrior Ministries

December 10th, 2007, 02:03 AM	#73
raevan VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: washington Posts: 4,028	I have had people show up drunk and stoned, they have been asked to leave. Drunk or stoned people cause trouble, which I don't care to get involved with. I tell those who feel they need alcohol and or drugs to function to not bother visiting. My Ex father-in-law wanted to go fishing with me in my canoe, I told him no beer or any other type alcoholic beverages while fishing, we weren't out even an hour and he wanted to go get a drink. Last time I fished with him.

December 10th, 2007, 07:00 AM	#79
peacefuljeffrey VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: south Florida Posts: 3,169	I have a different view of it, but I'm glad you said that you would not post a "no guns" policy. See, a "no guns" policy will not keep bad people with guns out. So it serves no useful purpose. That's why I go in with my gun anyway: I know I'm not a threat, and no one will even know about my gun -- unless I need it to save lives! Meanwhile, since it's my right to carry a gun, I view their "policy" as an intrusion on my rights. More than just an intrusion, it's a grievous insult. People would not go into a business if the business posted a rule like, "You are forbidden to speak about subjects X, Y and Z on our property." Why should they accept a limitation on their right to protect themselves? When I go into a place that says "no guns," and I go in armed, I am in fact secretly demonstrating my contempt for their stupidity and for their insult leveled at me and other responsible gun carriers.

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