Safety of National Parks/Conceal Carry - Page 3

BlackPR · January 23rd, 2008, 06:32 PM

Okay... I have some statistical information on crime in National Parks that I received from a nice person in the National Park Service.

Unfortunately, the attachment size is 150k and the limit for attachments here is 96k or something?

SIGguy229 · January 23rd, 2008, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenring

Good job!

But I'd wager you won't see this until at least this time next year - long after the present Administration is out of office (and it's either a done deal or too late).

If bureaucrats are adept at anything, it's the "slow roll".

Yes...but that's why there are people to follow up with either (2A) friendly Senators or Congressmen who have the pursestrings...there are penalties for not responding to FOIA requests.

forestranger · January 24th, 2008, 01:40 PM

In 34 years as a forester/forest ranger, I never had much problem with 4 legged critters( wild dogs-coyotes? and cottonmouths were my closest calls). This includes NC, Oregon, Calif., Washinton state, Idaho, Michigan, & Arizona. Two legged critters were a different matter. In NC, the Appalacian Trail and Blue Ridge parkway are known as places to be more concerned about two legged critters. I won't go on National Park or state park lands because of their rules on cc and possession of weapons for protection. That includes no more trips down the Blue Ridge Parkway. If at 61 years old, no criminal record, LE training, use of deadly force training, weapon proficiency qualification, background check, fingerprinting, etc., I can't be trusted on a National Park with a personal protection weapon, I just won't go there.

BlackPR · January 24th, 2008, 01:50 PM

Attached are the National Park Crime stats broken down by year for 1995-2006. Both Part1 and Part2 are relevant.

tns0038 · January 24th, 2008, 01:51 PM

Great post. Please mail that to the National Park service manager, and your congressman.

It’s interesting that in Florida our Fish and Game officers referred to as FWC, are more than twice as likely to being killed on the job as any other state officer. So much for parks being safe.

It should be noted that the FWC changed the law last years allowing CCL holder to carry in wildlife management area and other state managed property during non-hunting season. So long as it’s a sidearm concealed.

Tenring · January 24th, 2008, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackPR

Attached are the National Park Crime stats broken down by year for 1995-2006. Both Part1 and Part2 are relevant.

Very interesting statistics. It appears Level 1 (around 6% of the incidents) are generally decreasing with spikes in the '90s. Meanwhile, Level 2 events (around 94% of incidents) are all over the place and generally increasing, but strongly spiking a few years ago.

For 2006 there were nearly 80,000 crimes of various reportable categories, many of which are serious.

One thing these statistics do show, though; there is lot of crime in these Parks. They are not "safe" places frolicked in by only Bambi, Thumper, Smokey and an occaisional Ranger. It is particularly interesting to note when compared to the rest of the country, these are "small", mostly uninhabited areas with almost no permanent populations yet many of them contain a lot of pretty vast but nearly untraveled areas.

Thanks for the update. I'm impressed with how quickly the information came through. You must have some goodly clout!

BlackPR · January 24th, 2008, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenring

Thanks for the update. I'm impressed with how quickly the information came through. You must have some goodly clout!

This was not a result of my FOIA request. The information in my FOIA request will allow me to break those statistics down by specific park with detailed incident reports. I don't have a huge amount of hope that anything will come of it. I think they will deny me the fee waiver and demand thousands of dollars for the info. That seems to be their most likely "out"...

waynesan · January 24th, 2008, 09:42 PM

Great work BlackPR!
I just wish I had those stats when I wrote a letter to the editor last week of my local paper about this very subject.

Dusty Miller · January 24th, 2008, 11:17 PM

In truth there is NO PLACE that is safe in America anymore and people who think there is are just setting themselves up for a tragedy.

BlackPR · April 23rd, 2008, 12:16 PM

I received my response back from the DOI to my FOIA request (several posts up from here)...

In short, it was completely non-compliant. I asked for copies of all the "level 1 and level 2 incident reports" and provided them a pointer to their own guidelines on what these reports are. Their response to my FOIA request was a single sheet of paper, with a spreadsheet outlining how many level 1 and how many level 2 incidents had occured. Information that was already public, and not at all what I asked for.

Now they expect me to go through an appeal process if I'm not happy with that.

I'm not at all happy with it.

January 23rd, 2008, 06:32 PM	#21
BlackPR Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lakewood Colorado Posts: 572	Okay... I have some statistical information on crime in National Parks that I received from a nice person in the National Park Service. Unfortunately, the attachment size is 150k and the limit for attachments here is 96k or something? __________________ Truth and falsehood are both whatever and simultaneously not so, rather than not. Colorado Gun Law FAQ's: http://rmgo.org/faq/

January 24th, 2008, 09:42 PM	#28
waynesan Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Tennessee Posts: 67	Great work BlackPR! I just wish I had those stats when I wrote a letter to the editor last week of my local paper about this very subject. __________________ Raising children is like being pecked to death by a chicken every day.

April 23rd, 2008, 12:16 PM	#30
BlackPR Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lakewood Colorado Posts: 572	I received my response back from the DOI to my FOIA request (several posts up from here)... In short, it was completely non-compliant. I asked for copies of all the "level 1 and level 2 incident reports" and provided them a pointer to their own guidelines on what these reports are. Their response to my FOIA request was a single sheet of paper, with a spreadsheet outlining how many level 1 and how many level 2 incidents had occured. Information that was already public, and not at all what I asked for. Now they expect me to go through an appeal process if I'm not happy with that. I'm not at all happy with it. __________________ Truth and falsehood are both whatever and simultaneously not so, rather than not. Colorado Gun Law FAQ's: http://rmgo.org/faq/

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January 24th, 2008, 01:40 PM	#23
forestranger Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 158	In 34 years as a forester/forest ranger, I never had much problem with 4 legged critters( wild dogs-coyotes? and cottonmouths were my closest calls). This includes NC, Oregon, Calif., Washinton state, Idaho, Michigan, & Arizona. Two legged critters were a different matter. In NC, the Appalacian Trail and Blue Ridge parkway are known as places to be more concerned about two legged critters. I won't go on National Park or state park lands because of their rules on cc and possession of weapons for protection. That includes no more trips down the Blue Ridge Parkway. If at 61 years old, no criminal record, LE training, use of deadly force training, weapon proficiency qualification, background check, fingerprinting, etc., I can't be trusted on a National Park with a personal protection weapon, I just won't go there.

January 24th, 2008, 01:51 PM	#25
tns0038 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,111	Great post. Please mail that to the National Park service manager, and your congressman. It’s interesting that in Florida our Fish and Game officers referred to as FWC, are more than twice as likely to being killed on the job as any other state officer. So much for parks being safe. It should be noted that the FWC changed the law last years allowing CCL holder to carry in wildlife management area and other state managed property during non-hunting season. So long as it’s a sidearm concealed.

January 24th, 2008, 11:17 PM	#29
Dusty Miller Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Escalon, CA Posts: 335	In truth there is NO PLACE that is safe in America anymore and people who think there is are just setting themselves up for a tragedy.