Safety of National Parks/Conceal Carry

BlackPR · January 17th, 2008, 08:24 PM

If mods don't think this is the right place for this, just let me know.

There was a discussion in this thread: This carrying in national park thing... that pointed people to another discussion on a Yellowstone site regarding the political move to allow carry (and especially conceal carry) in National Parks.

The overwhelming response in the anti-gun camp was "you don't need guns" (and I hope I don't!) and that National Parks were safe. That started me thinking and compiling information and articles on the National Parks and National Park Service. I have made a very rough start. What I would ask is for people to respond with stories of violence and crime (I'm leaving the wildlife element out entirely) in National Parks, or to contribute statistics or web pages that would be informational on this subject. Here are my notes (and they're just notes for now -- my ultimate goal will be a well written document).

This is as good a resource as any (and maybe I will tap others)... but please jump in with any info you might have!

----
Murders in National Parks:

Park Ranger Steve Makuakane-Jarrell Murdered Dec 12, 1999 - Honokohau National Park

Julianne "Julie" Williams and her hiking companion, Laura "Lollie" Winans, Murdered June 1996 - Shenandoah National Park

Ranger Kris Eggle, Murdered August 9, 2002 Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument - Suspected Drug Cartel Killing

Carole Sund, 42; her daughter, Juli, 15; and their friend Silvina Pelosso, 16 - Murdered February 1999, Yosemite National Park

Nature Guide Joie Armstrong, Murdered July 1999

Pregnant Mother Jessie Davis, Murdered June 2007 - Body found in Cuyahoga Valley National Park

Yu-Shung Lin and Yuki Yoshida Murder-Suicide, Jan 15th, 2006 - Glen Canyon National Recreation Area

In 1989 there were 18 homocides in National Parks

Ranger Robert L. McGhee, Murdered 1989, Gulf Islands National Park

Mark Creasy 48 years old, Strangled to death May 2005 on Dangerfield Island

Joie Armstrong, Murdered July 21st 1999 Yosemite National Park

Total Reported "Part 1" Crimes By the National Park Service in 2006: 1010
Part 1 crimes is a standard law enforcement category that includes homicide, rape, robbery, aggravated assaults, stolen automobiles, burglary, and larceny. (Source: National Park Service)

9 Homicides in National Parks in 2006

I know there's a LOT more, but it's almost like someone doesn't want that info released. An interesting thing I noticed is that in news reports of murders in National Parks, the name of the national park is frequently NOT mentioned. It's only listed as "a nearby national park" or "a national park".

More Information needed on these National park incidents:

Recently, rangers shot two men to death in separate armed battles at Lake Mead National Recreational Area near Las Vegas. A ranger was injured in a fall over a cliff last year when he scuffled with a man he sought to question about an automobile theft. The assailant, who also fell, was killed in the incident at Canyon de Chelly National Monument in Arizona.

A large drug smuggling operation was uncovered last year in Big Bend National Park in Texas. A few months ago, rangers discovered a laboratory for methamphetamine, an illegal drug, in Joshua Tree National Park in California. Since January, rangers and drug agents have seized more than $500 million in narcotics from national parks.

Parks officials also warn that bands of thieves believe campgrounds are easy marks. Officials say thieves lurk in the background at camp sites, watching for people who leave valuables unguarded.

Mount Rainier National Park. In 1978 a double rape and armed robbery occurred on Rampart Ridge which led to an extensive manhunt both inside and outside the park. The perpetrator, a soldier from Fort Lewis, surrendered to authorities outside the park. In 1981 an armed robbery occurred at the National Park Inn. In 1987 park rangers and FBI agents carried out a joint investigation of a homicide after a body was discovered on the east side of the park. The victim had been shot in the back of the head. The unsolved murder case was thought to have been drug-related.

Two homicides in Lake Mead in 2006

1 Ranger to 100,000 visitors on average. Far less than ANY urban community anywhere in the US.

National Park Service is the only land management agency that refuses to track violence directed against its biologists, naturalists and non-commissioned rangers.

Devil's Postpile National Monument in California all the patrol rangers have been removed from the park. "There is no law enforcement presence in the park, and no agreements in place with neighboring law enforcement agencies. This is a complete violation of NPS policy and public trust, yet it has gone unchecked," according to the U.S. Park Rangers Lodge of the Fraternal Order of Police. A truly criminal safe zone!

National Park Service is dependant on keeping the image of National Parks "Safe," despite numbers to the contrary. Hence no collection of violent crime data by National Park Service in National Parks.

---
Articles about Crime in National Parks:
Crime rates tick up across national parks | csmonitor.com
Our National Parks – Crime's New Frontier
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/26/us...ge&oref=slogin
The Seattle Times: Local News: Crime slowly creeps into parks, forests
Our National Parks Student Journalism Project
Tucson Weekly : Currents : Ranger Danger
The Most Dangerous National Parks (5/15/03) -- www.GovernmentExecutive.com
USATODAY.com - U.S., Canadian officials bust daring drug-smuggling ring
U.S. Rangers, Park Police Sustain Record Levels of Violence
NPCA | Drug War Spreads to Americaâ€™s National Parks
News from DEA, Congressional Testimony, 04/15/03

jarhead45 · January 17th, 2008, 08:29 PM

Nice work!!! Keep up the good work.

MNBurl · January 17th, 2008, 08:49 PM

Nice job and keep up the good work.

BlackPR · January 17th, 2008, 08:59 PM

Law enforcement officers in the National Park Service are 12 times more likely to be killed or injured as a result of an assault than FBI agents – a rate triple that of the next worst federal agency," --Randall Kendrick, executive director for the U.S. Park Rangers Lodge of the Fraternal Order of Police.

That makes being a National Park Service Officer the most dangerous federal law enforcement job. Shocking...

woodstock · January 17th, 2008, 10:09 PM

I don't remember where I got this link, but I did bookmark it to read more later.

National Park Service - Crime Abounds

This stuff is claimed to come from the NPS' own reports.

BlackPR · January 17th, 2008, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodstock

I don't remember where I got this link, but I did bookmark it to read more later.

National Park Service - Crime Abounds

This stuff is claimed to come from the NPS' own reports.

This is exactly the sort of information I'm looking for! Thanks!!

PatrioticRick · January 18th, 2008, 03:44 AM

Of 274 million visitors to national parks last year, there were 13 murders, 44 rapes, nine armed robberies, 60 aggravated assaults, 270 burglaries and 100 vehicle thefts, according to Park Service records

Dihappy · January 18th, 2008, 04:12 AM

Wow, great stuff!

All that should have been sent along with the proposal to allow CHL.

MNBurl · January 18th, 2008, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackPR

Law enforcement officers in the National Park Service are 12 times more likely to be killed or injured as a result of an assault than FBI agents – a rate triple that of the next worst federal agency," --Randall Kendrick, executive director for the U.S. Park Rangers Lodge of the Fraternal Order of Police.

That makes being a National Park Service Officer the most dangerous federal law enforcement job. Shocking...

Does not surprise me. They work alone without a lot of help around (in a large park) so bound to be more dangerous than a sit behind the desk of the FBI most of the day.

Sky Pilot · January 18th, 2008, 08:19 AM

Excellent investigative work, all!
Thank you for this!
I knew the bad guys considered parks a "Condition White Zone" and major soft target ... but I hadn't the numbers to corroborate until now!

January 17th, 2008, 08:24 PM	#1
BlackPR Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lakewood Colorado Posts: 525	Safety of National Parks/Conceal Carry If mods don't think this is the right place for this, just let me know. There was a discussion in this thread: This carrying in national park thing... that pointed people to another discussion on a Yellowstone site regarding the political move to allow carry (and especially conceal carry) in National Parks. The overwhelming response in the anti-gun camp was "you don't need guns" (and I hope I don't!) and that National Parks were safe. That started me thinking and compiling information and articles on the National Parks and National Park Service. I have made a very rough start. What I would ask is for people to respond with stories of violence and crime (I'm leaving the wildlife element out entirely) in National Parks, or to contribute statistics or web pages that would be informational on this subject. Here are my notes (and they're just notes for now -- my ultimate goal will be a well written document). This is as good a resource as any (and maybe I will tap others)... but please jump in with any info you might have! ---- Murders in National Parks: Park Ranger Steve Makuakane-Jarrell Murdered Dec 12, 1999 - Honokohau National Park Julianne "Julie" Williams and her hiking companion, Laura "Lollie" Winans, Murdered June 1996 - Shenandoah National Park Ranger Kris Eggle, Murdered August 9, 2002 Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument - Suspected Drug Cartel Killing Carole Sund, 42; her daughter, Juli, 15; and their friend Silvina Pelosso, 16 - Murdered February 1999, Yosemite National Park Nature Guide Joie Armstrong, Murdered July 1999 Pregnant Mother Jessie Davis, Murdered June 2007 - Body found in Cuyahoga Valley National Park Yu-Shung Lin and Yuki Yoshida Murder-Suicide, Jan 15th, 2006 - Glen Canyon National Recreation Area In 1989 there were 18 homocides in National Parks Ranger Robert L. McGhee, Murdered 1989, Gulf Islands National Park Mark Creasy 48 years old, Strangled to death May 2005 on Dangerfield Island Joie Armstrong, Murdered July 21st 1999 Yosemite National Park Total Reported "Part 1" Crimes By the National Park Service in 2006: 1010 Part 1 crimes is a standard law enforcement category that includes homicide, rape, robbery, aggravated assaults, stolen automobiles, burglary, and larceny. (Source: National Park Service) 9 Homicides in National Parks in 2006 I know there's a LOT more, but it's almost like someone doesn't want that info released. An interesting thing I noticed is that in news reports of murders in National Parks, the name of the national park is frequently NOT mentioned. It's only listed as "a nearby national park" or "a national park". More Information needed on these National park incidents: Recently, rangers shot two men to death in separate armed battles at Lake Mead National Recreational Area near Las Vegas. A ranger was injured in a fall over a cliff last year when he scuffled with a man he sought to question about an automobile theft. The assailant, who also fell, was killed in the incident at Canyon de Chelly National Monument in Arizona. A large drug smuggling operation was uncovered last year in Big Bend National Park in Texas. A few months ago, rangers discovered a laboratory for methamphetamine, an illegal drug, in Joshua Tree National Park in California. Since January, rangers and drug agents have seized more than $500 million in narcotics from national parks. Parks officials also warn that bands of thieves believe campgrounds are easy marks. Officials say thieves lurk in the background at camp sites, watching for people who leave valuables unguarded. Mount Rainier National Park. In 1978 a double rape and armed robbery occurred on Rampart Ridge which led to an extensive manhunt both inside and outside the park. The perpetrator, a soldier from Fort Lewis, surrendered to authorities outside the park. In 1981 an armed robbery occurred at the National Park Inn. In 1987 park rangers and FBI agents carried out a joint investigation of a homicide after a body was discovered on the east side of the park. The victim had been shot in the back of the head. The unsolved murder case was thought to have been drug-related. Two homicides in Lake Mead in 2006 1 Ranger to 100,000 visitors on average. Far less than ANY urban community anywhere in the US. National Park Service is the only land management agency that refuses to track violence directed against its biologists, naturalists and non-commissioned rangers. Devil's Postpile National Monument in California all the patrol rangers have been removed from the park. "There is no law enforcement presence in the park, and no agreements in place with neighboring law enforcement agencies. This is a complete violation of NPS policy and public trust, yet it has gone unchecked," according to the U.S. Park Rangers Lodge of the Fraternal Order of Police. A truly criminal safe zone! National Park Service is dependant on keeping the image of National Parks "Safe," despite numbers to the contrary. Hence no collection of violent crime data by National Park Service in National Parks. --- Articles about Crime in National Parks: Crime rates tick up across national parks \| csmonitor.com Our National Parks – Crime's New Frontier http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/26/us...ge&oref=slogin The Seattle Times: Local News: Crime slowly creeps into parks, forests Our National Parks Student Journalism Project Tucson Weekly : Currents : Ranger Danger The Most Dangerous National Parks (5/15/03) -- www.GovernmentExecutive.com USATODAY.com - U.S., Canadian officials bust daring drug-smuggling ring U.S. Rangers, Park Police Sustain Record Levels of Violence NPCA \| Drug War Spreads to Americaâ€™s National Parks News from DEA, Congressional Testimony, 04/15/03 __________________ Truth and falsehood are both whatever and simultaneously not so, rather than not. Colorado Gun Law FAQ's: http://rmgo.org/faq/ KD0EMF

January 17th, 2008, 08:29 PM	#2
jarhead45 Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 178	Nice work!!! Keep up the good work. __________________ Honor, Courage, Virtue. These are what makes a man. "The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps." Eleanor Roosevelt, 1945

January 17th, 2008, 08:49 PM	#3
MNBurl Distinguished Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,685	Nice job and keep up the good work. __________________ MNBurl Side Guard Holsters "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton.

January 17th, 2008, 08:59 PM	#4
BlackPR Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lakewood Colorado Posts: 525	Another fact Law enforcement officers in the National Park Service are 12 times more likely to be killed or injured as a result of an assault than FBI agents – a rate triple that of the next worst federal agency," --Randall Kendrick, executive director for the U.S. Park Rangers Lodge of the Fraternal Order of Police. That makes being a National Park Service Officer the most dangerous federal law enforcement job. Shocking... __________________ Truth and falsehood are both whatever and simultaneously not so, rather than not. Colorado Gun Law FAQ's: http://rmgo.org/faq/ KD0EMF

January 17th, 2008, 10:09 PM	#5
woodstock Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Culpeper, VA Posts: 73	Found this link, don'remember where I don't remember where I got this link, but I did bookmark it to read more later. National Park Service - Crime Abounds This stuff is claimed to come from the NPS' own reports. __________________ Rick N. Culpeper, VA

January 18th, 2008, 03:44 AM	#7
PatrioticRick VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rigby, Idaho Posts: 2,642	Of 274 million visitors to national parks last year, there were 13 murders, 44 rapes, nine armed robberies, 60 aggravated assaults, 270 burglaries and 100 vehicle thefts, according to Park Service records __________________ "It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first." - Ronald Reagan USN/USAF Retired/Desert Shield/Desert Storm

January 18th, 2008, 04:12 AM	#8
Dihappy Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 171	Wow, great stuff! All that should have been sent along with the proposal to allow CHL. __________________ "...trying to get a long gun into play while someone is all over you like a monkey eating a cupcake is not very conducive to good survival techniques." ~Bark'n

January 18th, 2008, 08:19 AM	#10
Sky Pilot Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Lorain County, Ohio Posts: 345	Excellent investigative work, all! Thank you for this! I knew the bad guys considered parks a "Condition White Zone" and major soft target ... but I hadn't the numbers to corroborate until now! __________________ Center Township Combat Pistol League

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