Rob99VMI04

Don't know where this should be however thought I would ask.

Lets say your involved in a shooting.

Obviously clean self defense shooting trying to save life and limb etc.....Any reasonable man/woman consider self defense. Your state DOESN'T have CASTLE Doctrine.

Should/Can/has it been to file press Assault charges IMMEDIATLY to help you in a liability case/ and possible file a civil assault lawsuit against either a surviving bad guys or a dead bad guys family to help you in a down the road civil suit?

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HowardCohodas

I carry this card I created right behind my CCW license.

If I have given this to you, it has been necessary to take actions to defend innocent life. I am willing to sign a criminal complaint against the perpetrators. I will point out witnesses and evidence.

As you may have experienced yourself, this is a stressful and traumatic experience for me. Therefore, I wish to make no further statements until I have contacted an attorney and composed myself. I also do not consent to any searches. I will cooperate fully once I have consulted with an attorney and calmed down. As a lawfully armed citizen, I ask for the same courtesy that you would show a fellow officer who was involved in a similar situation. Thank you for your understanding.


It is not original with me and I no longer remember where I first saw it.

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Howard
I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop!!

SIXTO

In short, Yes, that will (or at least should) be done on your behalf no matter if the crime is assualt, robbery or whatever. Doing so yourself wont help your case. The only problem with this tactic is you can't charge a dead man with a crime.

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cwblanco

There no doubt will be a LEO investigation from the inception. If the bad guy is not dead, then it is likely that they will file the assualt charges. Of course, if he is dead, there will be no charges.

If you are contemplating a lawsuit and if the bad guy is wealthy, you may want to file your suit. On the other hand, it is probable that the bad guy will be a dead beat who owns absolutely nothing, except stolen property which is likely to be returned to the rightful owners. Thus, if you sue the bad guy, you have the prospect of recovering nothing. Of course he will counter sue. If you have nothing either, fine. But if you own property, then suing the bad guy would be flipping a two-headed coin and calling "tails."

As a final analysis, who is going to pay the lawyers if there is nothing realistic to go after. I suppose that if you are rich, you could get into the litigation for entertainment purposes.

cwblanco

If a client of mine walked into may office with such a card, and if he followed my advice, that card would head straight to the shredder.

HowardCohodas

This has been reviewed by LE officers and by lawyers, all free advice. So don't keep us in suspense, share your reasons for your opinion. I'm always eager to learn.

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Howard
I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop!!

CCWINNC

That is a worthless post criticizing another member unless you provide some sort of educational explaination for the rest of us to learn from.

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JonInNY

To cwblanco: Why? Please explain.

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TacticalCompact

+1. Please give explanation to support your views.

cwblanco

Although society had adapted rather well to accept the concept of CHL, and we can work through that just fine at trial, the idea of having a card printed which, arguably (at least from the prosecution position) suggests a predisposition or intent to get into a fatal fracas can be harmful to your case. There is a good chance that the card will be admitted into evidence the fact that the card was prepared prior to the shooting, mainly because it was created prior to the shooting, and was not originally prepared in response to any actual interrogation. Even if the card is not admitted in its entirety into evidence, the fact that you were in possession of the card prior to the shooting and part of its contents are likely to be admissible to show that you knew there was going to be a fracas or some type of predisposed intent (I know that is not the intent, but that will be the prosecution's approach).

A lawyer will have enough problems fighting off all of the other innuendos, biases, and trash thrown at the defendant with having the addition of fighting off the innuendo created by the card, whether or not it is a fair innuendo.

Don't do it. Don't have any documents showing any predisposition. Your card is very similar to the fellow who already had made advance bail bond arrangements. While it sounds logical, it can come back and bite you in the butt bad.

On the other hand, it seems that it would be wise to think out in advance how you would respond in such a scenario -- what you would say, what you would do.

As an example, I saw one response in another thread which is a logical response to questioning. "Sir, I obviously have been subjected to a terrible trauma. I will be happy to talk to you as soon as my lawyer is here with me." Believe it or not, the natural response is to immediately began talking to avoid suspicion. However, in many states including Texas, the jury can even be told that you requested that your lawyer be present, and if it is brought out, the jury will be instructed that it was your right and that fact cannot be considered as evidence against you.

CCWINNC

Along that lines should I shread my CCW as well. It shows that I have a predisposition to protect myself if needed with a handgun and the use of deadly force. Not to be sarcastic but I have a friend who belives the same thing that. If you are caught with a firearm in an unauthorized place with a CCW it is a Felony. If you do not have a CCW it is a misdemeanor.

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Rob72

So can many other things. I guess the pertinent question is: is this a citation of one or more defensive actions in the state of Texas? Or is it Ayoob Files...

I personally would not be too keen on the card myself, but I also have some public service experience, and experience with lawyers, to say that the ability to articulate why one does what one does in response to a situation is generally more helpful than not- it is indicative of training. Now if you have a certificate from these guys, you might have some issues, otherwise...
BLACK WOLF SECURITY CONSULTING ( CONSULTANCY: COUNTER TERORIST, CLOSE PROTECTION, GUARDING, TRAINING )

cwblanco

Go back and read Quote 1 above.

If you have the statutory cite for this please let us know. At a minimum, please give us the state so that we can check it out.

SIXTO

This thread is turning into great material for the CCW myths thread.

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dcb188

I would have to agree that having that card shows a possible predisposition to be involved in an incident, else why have the card printed and on your person? Any mention of speaking to an atty is a buzzword that creates suspicion. Then when the jury is instructed that under no circumstances are they to hold that against you, they do hold it against you anyway. The jury instruction does not remove it from the jury's mind. Having the card creates a situation where now you have to fight this idea that you looked forward to this kind of incident, besides having to possibly fight about the incident itself. You knew it was coming,the prosecution would say. If someone had a card in their wallet that said "When you catch me for something, I intend to maintain my innocence" all of us would think that that was suspicious and showed that they were going to commit crimes. It is just one more hurdle that you are throwing in your own way, that will have to be overcome at trial. And even if there is no trial, it still shows to a lot of folks, rightly or wrongly, that you sort of welcomed this kind of incident, because you sort of came prepared for it in a way. That is the real problem. They might be wrong but you needlessly expose yourself to that kind of prejudice. At least with no card on you, no one can draw those kinds of conclusions.

HowardCohodas

Then my obtaining an umbrella insurance policy to cover liability over my home and auto insurance or I put many of my assets into a trust arguably suggests a predisposition or intent to get into a situation where I would be liable.

That's an interesting legal theory. However it is well documented that there is a predisposition of those involved in a shooting to talk to much, have a poor feel for the time line of things and be overly excited so that others may deem those reactions as uncaring. I would think a competent lawyer may argue that in fact carrying that card was evidence of a thoughtful person perparing himself for many unlikely eventualities, just as the decision to train with and carry a firearm, lock one's car, lock one's home, have a smoke detector, having a CO detector and having a fire extinguisher.

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Howard
I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop!!

MitchellCT

Litigation against the attacker?

My fees for drafting a simple, one count assault complaint for you to pursue on your own without my representation: $500

If you want me to handle the case for you I will want $150/hr with a 10 hour retainer paid up front. Cash, checks or credit cards accepted.

I won't do a contingency fee agreement in a matter such as this unless I believe their will be a recovery significant enough to wait about 18 months to 3 years for payment.

Marshal's fee for service of process: $175 (approximate)

Court entry fee in Connecticut: $225

Those fees are separate from the fees for representation in talking to the police before they decide to press charges or representation in court on the criminal case against you resulting from the incident.

It isn't worth your time filing a civil suit against someone who assaulted you.

You will end up spending about $900 minimum to get started on your own without a lawyer, a lot more if you do hire a lawyer and you will open the door to a counterclaim against yourself, and you likely have much more to loose than the guy you are suing.

Oh, and if you think my fees are excessive, you probably don't deal with lawyers much...

MitchellCT

Isn't it?

Of course, it could be the result of his experience as an attorney which might be a little more than theory in his case...

dcb188

The only problem is that you carried that card into an incident. If your home went up in smoke and you had a card on you that said If My house should burn down, I want to speak with an attorney as soon as you take me to the hospital, again you would be placing needless hurdles in your own path. It just looks suspicious, not a policy but a card in your wallet just about predicting (in some people's minds) what would happen. You would definitely come under suspicion with a card like that, and if you had a card like the one in the gun incident, some folks would think that you are a hothead and now you have drawn more suspicion all because you carried a card that COULD be interpreted differently than the way you intended. And if you put your assets into a trust that would be fine but if they found a card in your wallet that says IF you now know that all my assets are in a trust fund, then I would like to speak with an attorney. Once again you have drawn attention from your actions to your business card, and it would be really damaging. Without the cards, no one could possibly jump to those conclusions. The fact that you had a card on you could mean that you did not at all think it unlikely that you would be involved in a shooting.

HowardCohodas

Until you or any other attorney show me that you understand the following issues, I'll hold judgement. This post shooting issues list was copied from another thread on this site. When I weigh my concern with my ability to deal with these issues in a post shooting situation vs. how others might perceive my preparation, I'll go with the advice I've already received.

Precognition
Auditory Exclusion
Tunnel vision
Witness dynamics
Post Shooting Trauma
Logorrhea

An interesting sidenote. I have received three opinions from two lawyers in the same room and then telling me that it was my responsibility to decide how to proceed.

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Howard
I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop!!