Rustynuts

Maybe the dual action itself can be considered a "safety"? Just a matter of semantics. Both guns would function the same 0 or 1. A 1911 will fire from Cond. 0 just like a DAO. Some 1911's may even be safe with hammer down carry, not sure).

I would say a regular DAO gun should be called Cond. 1 since the conditions a gauges of relative safety of the carry. A gun designed to be carried loaded/cocked with no external safety should not be a "0" I would think, unless someone is dumb enough to get a 1-lb trigger job on it for carry!

goldshellback

The condition codes are used for ALL firearms, sidearm, long gun, and shotguns.

Well, us in the Navy use the condition codes....except cond. 2, which is specificly for 1911's.

__________________
"Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet........CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, as quoted on Fox & Friends, July 7th, 2008

Yoda

"If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears."

I carry a Glock 19 with no round in the chamber and with the trigger in the pulled (uncocked) position. I can look at the gun and have 2 external indicators that there is no round in the chamber: 1 the trigger is still in the pulled position and 2 the extractor is still flush with the frame.

I can rack the slide as I pull the weapon out from my hidden carry location.

I do this for several reasons and I am wondering if there is any reason to keep a round in the chamber other than speed.

If I can draw the gun I can rack a round into the chamber.

__________________
Do or do not, there is no try..

archer51

The ability to get the first shoot off quickly and accurately is the point. How long does it take you to chamber a round? Test yourself. With your gun UNLOADED and holstered, have someone time you. See how long it takes to draw, rack the slide, bring your gun on target and fire. Then again with gun UNLOADED and holstered. See how long it takes to draw, bring your gun on target and fire.
Remember the BG already has the advantage if he has a weapon in his hand, even a split second can be the difference of walking away and being carried away in a bodybag. I want every advantage I can get. JMO

NKMG19

I too have a G19 and thought the same thing until I watched a few videos of defensive shootings and realized that the extra second it would have taken to rack the slide would have made the outcome of the shooting different. So now I always carry with one in the chamber. I just double my safety practices.

KenpoTex

...and when you're done doing that, try it while a partner wearing boxing gloves beats the crap out of you, or the partner uses a training knife to shank the hell out of you, or when you're on the ground with the BG on top of you, or when you have to control your kid or significant-other... (it might be nice to have the use of your off hand for other tasks while you're drawing the weapon with your dominant hand).
You might not always have the use of both hands because of one of the aforementioned scenarios, you also might be injured.

if you follow the cardinal safety rules there is no logical reason to carry with an empty chamber.

at any rate, the issue of carrying a weapon that is not ready to use has been debated to death, I don't want this to turn into yet another "dead horse whipping session."

__________________
"There are no substitutes for violence of action and volume of fire..." ~Otto Skorzeny

If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

Matt K.

Bob The Great

How you carry is up to you, but personally, I would rather only need one hand to bring the gun into play. With an empty chamber, you must use both hands to ready the gun to fire. No matter how fast you are and how well practiced, if your off-hand is incapacitated or being grabbed or being used to fend off an attacker, you have effectively transformed your gun into an expensive club.

On the subject of the OP, I've always thought about the various conditions as applying to any gun, but I have slightly different definitions.

Condition 0: The only step necessary to fire the gun is pulling the trigger.
Condition 1: To fire, you must first disengage a manual safety in a separate motion from pulling the trigger.
Condition 2: To fire, you must first cock the hammer in a separate motion from pulling the trigger.
Condition 3: To fire, you must first load a round into the chamber by manipulating the action in some way.
Condition 4: Completely unloaded

Striker fired safety-less guns like a Glock would always be in conditions 0, 3, or 4.
DAO safety-less guns would also be considered to be in condition 0, 3, or 4 because the only action needed to fire is to pull the trigger.
DA/SA guns would never use condition 2, and may or may not use condition 1 depending on the presence of a manual safety.
SAO guns like the 1911 can use all conditions, though condition 2 is dangerous to use without a decocker.

Thus, I carry my DA/SA USP in condition 1. The hammer is down (decocked), but it is still considered condition 1 because the only actions I must perform to fire the weapon are to disengage the manual safety and pull the trigger.

Likewise, my DA/SA and SAO pistols are stored in condition 3, and it would be the same for a DAO or striker-fired gun. In each case, I must operate the action to load a cartridge and ready the gun to fire.

This applies to rifles too, and with a little bit of stretching you could fit revolvers in there too.

__________________
"A well-educated electorate, being necessary to the continuance of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed."
Is this hard to understand? Then why does it get unintelligible to some people when 5 little words are changed?

dukalmighty

All i can say is I hope you're fingers don't slip off the slide or you jam your gun trying to rack a round in the chamber,because if the other guy has a gun you will more than likely be dead

__________________
I like Poetry,Long Walks On The Beach,And Poking Dead Things With A Stick

Yoda

Thanks for all the replies, I see that being "one handed" is another reason besides speed.

I was brought up with such ingrained safety practices that my stomach almost turns when I walk through the door with a loaded handgun. I was always taught to unload the weapon before entering the house (these were always hunting firearms). I also had a close cousin that was killed by accidental gunshot so I am extra sensitive.

I have gotten over that hurdle and am now trying to convince myself to keep a round in the chamber.

I am also a safety professional so am always cognizant of failure modes, risk and the like. I have many times testified as an expert in these matters (safety).

I probably should have done a search to find the myriad of prior posts on this subject.

Thanks again everyone.

__________________
Do or do not, there is no try..

Puppy

Be aware of a problem as you change your policy. You may be so used to not having a round chambered that you may instinctively just drop the magazine and forget the chambered round. That can lead to all sorts of bad results.

I started out the same way and when I decided to change I just really really concentrated on remembering the chambered round until it became second nature.