Training and Safety - Page 2

hinkleid · May 17th, 2008, 10:28 PM

Seems a simple rule to keep the finger off the trigger until ready to fire (but doesn't it seem a temptation and youre finger is attracted to the trigger). Takes practice to resist this.

We did an exercise in my class where we would fire once given the command. First our finger was on the trigger and would time to fire. Second was timed with finger ABOVE the trigger under the slide. Difference was SLIGHT (maybe 1-2 tenths of a second). This gives one time to THINK and be SURE of the target than just popping the trigger.

Hope this guy is OK. That would put a dent in your Saturday.

HKP30 · May 17th, 2008, 11:16 PM

Was the person who shot himself using a Blackhawk Serpa holster?

The firearms instructor I spent 6 hours with on Tuesday of this last week said they dislike the Serpa because your trigger finger is "doing something" as an active part of the draw stroke. Retention is great, but using your trigger finger to defeat that retention is asking for an accident was the Gist of what he told me.

kentuckycarry · May 18th, 2008, 09:57 PM

I'm taking a course this weekend. On the site it says "NO SERPA BLACKHAWK HOLSTERS PERMITTED".

HKP30 · May 18th, 2008, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentuckycarry

I'm taking a course this weekend. On the site it says "NO SERPA BLACKHAWK HOLSTERS PERMITTED".

Tactical Response Fighting Pistol? Or at a bare minimum Tactical Response "Something" ? ?

packinnova · May 18th, 2008, 10:35 PM

Hope he's ok and hope he learned a valuable lesson. You never know...some people are doomed to repeatedly make the same mistakes over and over.

As to the Serpa replies...I don't like 'em either. I'm of the opinion that if you can't retain your pistol without some super-duper-wizbang retention holster...you probably can't retain it with it either and don't belong using it.

T Bone · May 19th, 2008, 10:52 AM

Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark!

The Blackhawk holsters have gotten some bad marks, first for locking up with gravel, now for requiring a manipulation with the trigger finger to defeat the retention.

Safariland seems to be the way to go for those required (yes, many Law Enforcement Agencies now require either a level two or level three retention holster for duty use).

But regardless of the holster used here, this incident shows poor trigger finger placement/training.

Reborn · May 19th, 2008, 11:02 AM

Gun class and first aid class together..........I'll pass.

Keely110706 · May 19th, 2008, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reborn

Gun class and first aid class together..........I'll pass.

Just a curosity question....Do firmarm instructors have to be certified in first aid as well? This comment got the hamsters spinning in my head

dukalmighty · May 19th, 2008, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilie

If I'm in a class where we will be drawing from holsters with a live gun, I want to know personally that all the other students know and practice the 4 rules.

nobody should be in a class drawing guns with rounds in the chamber,good way for somebody to get shot,you wanta practice drawing ,unload you're gun or do it on the firing range

T Bone · May 19th, 2008, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dukalmighty

nobody should be in a class drawing guns with rounds in the chamber,good way for somebody to get shot,you wanta practice drawing ,unload you're gun or do it on the firing range

So you're against any type of advanced instruction then? Shooting schools like Gunsite, Blackwater, Thunder Ranch, Front Sight etal?

What about competition (IDPA, IPSC, etc., etc....). Sorry, but that's absurd. Practicing drawing/firing with live ammunition should be a part of everyone's training regimen IMHO.

May 17th, 2008, 11:16 PM	#12
HKP30 Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Fishers, IN Posts: 94	Was the person who shot himself using a Blackhawk Serpa holster? The firearms instructor I spent 6 hours with on Tuesday of this last week said they dislike the Serpa because your trigger finger is "doing something" as an active part of the draw stroke. Retention is great, but using your trigger finger to defeat that retention is asking for an accident was the Gist of what he told me. __________________ Mindset - Tactics - Skills - Equipment http://www.ingunowners.com W9ZEB dot Org

May 19th, 2008, 10:52 AM	#16
T Bone Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Metropolitan Detroit Posts: 580	Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark! The Blackhawk holsters have gotten some bad marks, first for locking up with gravel, now for requiring a manipulation with the trigger finger to defeat the retention. Safariland seems to be the way to go for those required (yes, many Law Enforcement Agencies now require either a level two or level three retention holster for duty use). But regardless of the holster used here, this incident shows poor trigger finger placement/training. __________________ Regards, T Bone. "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety". Benjamin Franklin

May 19th, 2008, 11:02 AM	#17
Reborn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Rowlett, Texas Posts: 1,159	Gun class and first aid class together..........I'll pass. __________________ Psalms 144:1 Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight. Senior Instructor for Tactical and Defensive of Texas CHL INSTRUCTOR Retired LEO NRA member TCHA member

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May 17th, 2008, 10:28 PM	#11
hinkleid Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Boise ID Posts: 79	Seems a simple rule to keep the finger off the trigger until ready to fire (but doesn't it seem a temptation and youre finger is attracted to the trigger). Takes practice to resist this. We did an exercise in my class where we would fire once given the command. First our finger was on the trigger and would time to fire. Second was timed with finger ABOVE the trigger under the slide. Difference was SLIGHT (maybe 1-2 tenths of a second). This gives one time to THINK and be SURE of the target than just popping the trigger. Hope this guy is OK. That would put a dent in your Saturday.

May 18th, 2008, 09:57 PM	#13
kentuckycarry Distinguished Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: kentucky Posts: 1,838	I'm taking a course this weekend. On the site it says "NO SERPA BLACKHAWK HOLSTERS PERMITTED".