Originally Posted by TacticalCompact

do you need a full size handgun for this or would a small kahr suffice?

Originally Posted by TacticalCompact

do you need a full size handgun for this or would a small kahr suffice?

Originally Posted by jarhead45

This is the best permanent facility I have ever seen. You have whole families attending as well as police, Blackwater I figured they would use their own school in Moyock, NC, exclusively. Hmmm., truckdrivers, millionaires etc. My class of 40 had a airline pilot and family, 4 blackwater, 6 women, 6 LEO's, 2 truckdrivers, 3 college students, 4 contractors from Iraq and a whole buch of common folk like myself not to forget a couple of Army Rangers on there way back to the sandbox. About 300-400 total this weekend at the sight taking various courses.

It was hot, bring a cooler with at least 6-8 16oz. bottles of water per person and one of those A-rab doo rags, and keep it wet around your neck!

I took my SIG P-6/225. Short trigger, Meprolight sights and Nills grips, a really nice gun. I will not do that again with a SIG as it cost me some time on my failure drills.I think I would bring my EDC weapon and screw the timer. The controls are just too small and drawing and using that DA trigger on the first shot was ugly.Learn to use the EDC or get a new EDC DO NOT bring a DA/SA auto unless you want to embarres youself points wise.Is this a combat course or a competition? Only one failure all weekend and it was a Blackwater guy with a tricked out 1911. He kept getting major double feeds and jams. The best gun are those dang XD's. They have the simplest manual of arms and they just plain work. The glock guys have to remember to "trip the trigger" when setting up the various failures or they get a fault.Getting squirrelly with your trigger in the middle of a training evolution sounds awful silly to me.

You will be performing tactical and emergency reloads in addition to clearing type 1,2 and 3 malfunctions and all are timed. Type 4 malfunctions are unclearable so go for your BUG. Tap Rack Bang GOOD. Tap Rack Click BAD.You will be shooting at 3,5,7,10 and 15 meters. You will always be drawing and firing from a concealment garment. And yes at all those distances you will be drawing and firing 2 shots to the chest area in 1.5 seconds. Slow hits beat fast misses every time. The reliable convergence of speed and accuracy takes time.Those targets turn fast. In addition you will also draw and fire one head shot into what they call the cranial occular cavity. that is a 3X5 area that extends from the eye brows to the top of the lip. And if you are real good - try that shot in 1.5 seconds from the holster at 15 meters - lemme know how you do... its a hoot.

I personally have learned my lesson on the steal plates. I will be bringing my Commander out of retirement. Say what you will,, but the only guns out there consistently knocking those steal plates down in the 2 man shoot off were the .45's. My 9mm sucked, .40's were not consistant and the biggest surprise to me was the .357 SIG - it took a couple of shots also to knock em down. Modern designs of self defense bullets should perform reasonably well against real BGs at the 9mm level and up. To paraphrase Pat Morita, "Never been attacked by steel plate."

The instructors are world class and so is the facility. A little thing they call Monsters Inc. and the so called fun house is a real eye opener. Clearing that fun house was a very stressful situation, very stressful .. make it real and you will really learn some stuff.

Do they give any props to the evolving doctrine of "getting off the X?"

The days start at 7:30 AM and end 7:30 PM. Add in some driving time and meals and you put in 4 - 12 hour days only getting @ 5 hours of sleep per night. And on the 3rd day is the night shoot and it goes till 10PM. So for your final you get even less sleep.

They lied this is not a resort!!!!! This is work. I was never so mad in my life as these 4 days. More mad at myself but also mad at them, I kept asking where is my massage and my spa, where was my gourmet meals- gotta bring your own food. But that is why I took a few days to write this, I wanted to cool off as I was very disappointed in my performance. You will not really appreciate it untill you are away from it and you start remembering. This is what getting a CCW should really be like. Not just 8 hours of lecture on the legality and an easy shooting test. If you are going into a gunfight it better not be fair if you wanna go home. And trust me you may think yourself safe in gun handling - I will be bold here and a general statement - yer not. Take a course .. get ready , and I mean really ready for that ONE gunfight, you cannot afford to lose. I still got a long way to go. Good luck folks. Stay safe, stay concealed and remember 2 shots to the chest and one in the brain pan.I like the SHOOT TIL THEY STOP idea myself. It should work - most of the time. Thank you pards for making it this far on this ramble.

Originally Posted by tns0038

Thanks for a GREAT report.

Some people are opening such a place within 100 miles of my house, and they offered LEO’s and former LEO’s, membership to use the range, and discounts on classes. I’ve already sent in my application.

In Federal and state qualifying test you’re allowed 3-seconds for two shots, and 7 seconds for five shots from concealed. They also have 10 shots from two clips within 10 seconds.

But, dropping the draw fire to 1.5 seconds; OH boy ????…. I’ll never pass!