Fairfax County Police (WoW) From VCDL (UGLY) - Page 6

gglockster · June 28th, 2008, 11:16 AM

In my experience, I have found the Virginia Citizens Defense League to be right on the money. There may be more information forthcoming, but I pretty much believe the facts as reported at their website.

TN_Mike · June 28th, 2008, 12:00 PM

Good God, that is appalling.

Please updare us as things progress.

Mighty HD · June 28th, 2008, 12:12 PM

I personally hope he sues the hell out of the department and hands their a$$ses to them on a rusted platter.

FN1910 · June 28th, 2008, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticks

Regarding the arrival of additional police...

Depending on the department, recent hires, and so on, I can believe it.

Possibility...All the first officer registered was "I am armed" and called backup. Arriving officers and supervisor may have realized the boo boo, and tried to salvage the situation by going forth and hoping the citizen would just roll over and take it.

I was detained a couple of years ago (11:30 PM) for "Suspicion of DUI" and two additional units arrived before the first officer got out of his vehicle, and a fourth arrived while he was walking the 10 yards to where I stopped/parked my bike (1/2 a block from my garage), key hanging off the right mirror, and my sitting side saddle smoking a cigarette clearly demonstrating that I was not a flight risk. Surrounded, grilled, Breathalyzered (0.0 much to the LEOs irritation), lectured on my riding practices for 35 minuets by some twit who I have been riding longer than he has been alive, and released with not even a warning of any infraction. Had I been ticked, it would have been a fun day in court.

So, multiple officers arriving on a minor traffic stop does not surprise me in the least. Compounding the situation...I too would like to hear more about this from official channels.

Had I been the citizen in the OP situation, I would have pushed the issue with the magistrate to have my gun and car returned then and now, no fees, and a verbal apology from the officers. Ticket me for the Red light, my bad, here is the money for the fine.

Dirty biker gang member, I can understand his fear.

This one is too weird to not get more on.

WoodLark · June 28th, 2008, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digitalexplr

Just a little thread hijack.

Before you go to referring to LEO's as dumb, you should check out the education requirements of most departments. Your larger departments almost always require a bachelor's degree of applicants. Even for those who don't, getting promoted usually does. The higher you go in rank the higher degree required.

Many of you would be surprised to know that the, "dumb" cop that pulled you over may have a Master's Degree or even a PhD.

This is what makes stupid moves very costly for officers and departments. They can't claim ignorance.

Smaller and more rural departments are a different story.

A degree of any kind does not confer common sense. I used to be a Deputy Sheriff, and YES, some of them are that dumb!

msgt/ret · June 28th, 2008, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WoodLark

A degree of any kind does not confer common sense. I used to be a Deputy Sheriff, and YES, some of them are that dumb!

I agree wholeheartedly, being former enlisted military and having worked with many officers (college degree required) I must admit I have on occasion worked with some highly educated idiots.

JD · June 28th, 2008, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msgt/ret

I agree wholeheartedly, being former enlisted military and having worked with many officers (college degree required) I must admit I have on occasion worked with some highly educated idiots.

64zebra · June 28th, 2008, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WoodLark

A degree of any kind does not confer common sense. I used to be a Deputy Sheriff, and YES, some of them are that dumb!

that and the level of coverage that officers get training on.....
I mean this last week in our class we breezed through the firearms chapter and barely covered what was legal/illegal concerning CHL, places off limits, etc
at lunch and after class everyone was asking me what was right/wrong legal/illegal for CHLs, they just didn't cover it in enough detail to properly train everyone that will be on the streets in December IMO

Andy · June 29th, 2008, 11:13 PM

Someone earlier in the thread commented that it was surprising that the officer had never heard of permit reciprocity. I had the opposite experience. About a month ago, I went to the local Police Department to be fingerprinted for my Florida permit renewal. They couldn't help me because they are equipped only to do electronic prints, and that doesn't work for out-of-state Florida renewals.

I asked if they could refer me to another department that might help me, and I ended up talking to the Captain. He asked asked me why I had a Florida permit, since I live in Connecticut. I told him that, since Connecticut does not honor the Florida permit, Florida will not honor my Connecticut permit. He was really surprised to learn that Connecticut did not honor every other state's permits; he commented that he thought they were just like driver's licenses.

But he did call the Police Department in the next town to ask them to help me, and, in the course of the conversation (with a lieutenant there) asked him if he was aware that Connecticut did not honor out-of state permits, and that officer, too, was unaware that they weren't honored. So, this mistaken impression appears to be widespread -- but I wouldn't count on it!

LenS · June 29th, 2008, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TacticalCompact

Having a degree does not make one "smart." What gave you that idea anyway? People are people regardless of profession or education.

Indeed, I've worked with and for very bright people with no degrees and likewise some with degrees that acted as dumb as a doornail in the workplace.

Quote:

Originally Posted by packinnova

heh, I wouldn't go by education requirements. I know folks with BS's that I wouldn't trust to plug in a light-bulb correctly. Same for the PHD...I know a few of those too. Neither of which have any common sense. ONE of them actually has a brain and knows how to use it.

They don't teach commonsense in college!

Quote:

Originally Posted by FN1910

Why did two more units pull up? Did the first officer call for help and if so why. Or did they just happen by and decide to stop. This is something that could shed some light on this incident.

What is "felony stop" mode. Where was he when made to walk backwards. Were they doing a roadside sobrtiety check? They disarmed and handcuffed him. Sounds like standard procedure for someone being arrested.

This I could believe. I doubt that they threw it on the road but how many in here have not dropped their gun. Isn't that something that we all check for when choosing a gun is one that will not go off if dropped?

That is wild from all standpoints I would have thought they knew that law?

Unless they thought he wa a felon then surely they would have know about the federal travel guidelines.

Hard to believe a Fairfax LEO didn't know NC had reciprocity unless they were completely clueless

Backup on car stops is a normal thing, providing an officer is available. They are the most risky (aside from DV cases) stops that any officer can make (e.g. more officers are hurt/killed at traffic stops than anything else), so two more eyes and another officer can increase safety for all.

As for knowing the law, the academies don't teach everything there is to know about firearms law and most officers really aren't that knowledgeable in that area. In my state there is a 400 pg book published just on the firearms laws for LEOs . . . very few LEOs ever read it or try to understand it. I worked for the PD for 17 years as a Reserve PO, qualified with fellow officers and know how ignorant they are on the gun laws here. I've had our chief ask me about the gun laws. I'm aware of a situation where someone was arrested for "possession of a BB gun without a license" . . . there is no such thing in this state and no requirement for any license for BB guns.

If you announce that you are carrying in my state, expect a felony stop! Many POs don't even know that citizens can carry a gun legally here and their reaction is likely to be predictable and unpleasant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 64zebra

that and the level of coverage that officers get training on.....
I mean this last week in our class we breezed through the firearms chapter and barely covered what was legal/illegal concerning CHL, places off limits, etc
at lunch and after class everyone was asking me what was right/wrong legal/illegal for CHLs, they just didn't cover it in enough detail to properly train everyone that will be on the streets in December IMO

Bingo! I get a lot of questions about gun laws from various folks, including LEOs. I've also had to correct one BATFE agent who gave wrong info that, if followed, could have led to someone committing a felony inadvertently (wrt interstate transfer between family members).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy

He was really surprised to learn that Connecticut did not honor every other state's permits; he commented that he thought they were just like driver's licenses.

But he did call the Police Department in the next town to ask them to help me, and, in the course of the conversation (with a lieutenant there) asked him if he was aware that Connecticut did not honor out-of state permits, and that officer, too, was unaware that they weren't honored. So, this mistaken impression appears to be widespread -- but I wouldn't count on it!

Most LEOs in this area don't know much about FOPA nor do they understand the permit process, reciprocity or even HR218/LEOSA. The top brass in this state was against LEOSA and thus does nothing to ensure that officers are educated about it.

June 28th, 2008, 12:00 PM	#52
TN_Mike VIP Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Arlington, TN Posts: 5,114	Good God, that is appalling. Please updare us as things progress. __________________ A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. —Barry Goldwater 1968 Tennessee Firearms Association

June 28th, 2008, 12:12 PM	#53
Mighty HD Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 63	I personally hope he sues the hell out of the department and hands their a$$ses to them on a rusted platter. __________________ Mighty HD

June 29th, 2008, 11:13 PM	#59
Andy Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Connecticut Posts: 17	Reciprocity Someone earlier in the thread commented that it was surprising that the officer had never heard of permit reciprocity. I had the opposite experience. About a month ago, I went to the local Police Department to be fingerprinted for my Florida permit renewal. They couldn't help me because they are equipped only to do electronic prints, and that doesn't work for out-of-state Florida renewals. I asked if they could refer me to another department that might help me, and I ended up talking to the Captain. He asked asked me why I had a Florida permit, since I live in Connecticut. I told him that, since Connecticut does not honor the Florida permit, Florida will not honor my Connecticut permit. He was really surprised to learn that Connecticut did not honor every other state's permits; he commented that he thought they were just like driver's licenses. But he did call the Police Department in the next town to ask them to help me, and, in the course of the conversation (with a lieutenant there) asked him if he was aware that Connecticut did not honor out-of state permits, and that officer, too, was unaware that they weren't honored. So, this mistaken impression appears to be widespread -- but I wouldn't count on it!

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

June 28th, 2008, 11:16 AM	#51
gglockster Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 29	In my experience, I have found the Virginia Citizens Defense League to be right on the money. There may be more information forthcoming, but I pretty much believe the facts as reported at their website.