"Unarmed" guard CCW

Sleepnheat · July 3rd, 2008, 09:22 AM

I work with 9 close friends

. We camp, fish, family picnics etc. and they all now that I CCW. They all love it and shoot with me quite often

. The prob is this....I am not allowed to carry at work since it is an "unarmed" post. But every time we come up on a situation (burglary in progress, 10 crack heads, etc.) my partner always asks if I am pack'n (they are very relieved if I am).

I'm not certain if I will face criminal charges if I carry at work. I have reviewed the RCW's and can't find anything regarding CCW at a security position. I know that I will lose my job, but I would rather that then my life. I don't want to face criminal charges cause I was CCW within a security position. I know my immediate boss is against it (he thinks nothing bad will ever happen because he has been there for 13 years and had no more than a knife pointed at him). But every other person whom which I work with wants me to carry!

I would love to carry at work since that is were I encounter the most threats, but I want to do it legally (I have CPL). I was an armed guard in LA for 6 years and know that it is a big "NO NO

" to go against policy. I'm just not sure about Washington.

Any ideas?

rljohns · July 3rd, 2008, 09:31 AM

I'm not from Washington and do not have a law degree nor do I play a lawyer on TV. But my understanding is that you would be under the same requirements as any threat. You need to prove grave bodily harm to you or anyone else in the immediate area. That would include rape of a victim, deadly force used against you, etc. That would not include protection of a customer's property or apprehending a criminal committing a minor crime.

artemis28 · July 3rd, 2008, 09:35 AM

Have you tried asking the place that issues permits if it is illegal? Or you could try looking up the laws pertaining to private security and see if something in them prohibits you from carrying at work.

MattLarson · July 3rd, 2008, 09:36 AM

It would appear that your CCW does not cover carry while working as a security officer.

Quote:

Can I carry a gun if I have a concealed weapons permit until my license arrives?

No, your permit is for personal use only and does not grant permission to carry or use a weapon on the job. You must have your armed license to carry a weapon during business hours.

Quote:

What if I tested with my personal weapon? The application states, “Gun(s) provided by employer…”

Per RCW 18.170.050, “All firearms carried by armed private security guards in the performance of their duties must be owned or leased by the employer and, if required by law, must be registered with the proper government agency.”

https://fortress.wa.gov/cjtc/www/pri...ity/index.html

Matt

CopperKnight · July 3rd, 2008, 09:39 AM

I have read as many of the firearms laws I can in Washington. I have not come across anything that (legally) prohibits you from carrying as a guard, but it is outside of your job description (as you know). You are only considered an "armed" security guard if you are licensed and hired as "armed". All prohibited places would remain the same as a citizen. Matiki usually has some good information on this kind of thing.

As a reference, Chapter 308-18 WAC provides the definitions of security guards and armed security guards.

jahwarrior72 · July 3rd, 2008, 09:48 AM

the i live in public housing, and the security they contracted is also unarmed. i spoke with one of the officers; even though they are bonded, and are certified under PA act 235, they are not allowed to be armed while on duty. the officer i spoke to confided that he, and many others, carry concealed. when i asked him if they could be charged, or lose their certification, he said that the worst that could happen is they'd get fired. that's PA; i don't know how it works in your state.

Sleepnheat · July 3rd, 2008, 09:49 AM

Mattlarson,

My company requires all weapons to be "owned" by our employer. If you wish to be armed then they purchase the gun for $1 and sell it back at the end of your employment.

MattLarson · July 3rd, 2008, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleepnheat

Mattlarson,

My company requires all weapons to be "owned" by our employer. If you wish to be armed then they purchase the gun for $1 and sell it back at the end of your employment.

Indeed.

However, the other item I quoted seems to indicate that you cannot carry under the license granted by your CCW while working as a licensed security guard.

Matt

Sleepnheat · July 3rd, 2008, 10:05 AM

I guess its better to be alive and in jail then to be dead and 6' down.

But I do enjoy my job and it simply pisses my off that I am not allowed to carry when I really should.

I guess I could just find a new job...

Like I said, I worked in LA for quite some time and the job I currently have is not to far off in regards to the danger.

Ghettokracker71 · July 3rd, 2008, 10:47 AM

Look into working as armed security?

I'd never even consider working as unarmed security. Usually I see them while Im legally CCW'ing I always think how I'm actually armed,and better prepared for SHTF than they are.

July 3rd, 2008, 09:22 AM	#1
Sleepnheat Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Washington Posts: 39	"Unarmed" guard CCW I work with 9 close friends. We camp, fish, family picnics etc. and they all now that I CCW. They all love it and shoot with me quite often. The prob is this....I am not allowed to carry at work since it is an "unarmed" post. But every time we come up on a situation (burglary in progress, 10 crack heads, etc.) my partner always asks if I am pack'n (they are very relieved if I am). I'm not certain if I will face criminal charges if I carry at work. I have reviewed the RCW's and can't find anything regarding CCW at a security position. I know that I will lose my job, but I would rather that then my life. I don't want to face criminal charges cause I was CCW within a security position. I know my immediate boss is against it (he thinks nothing bad will ever happen because he has been there for 13 years and had no more than a knife pointed at him). But every other person whom which I work with wants me to carry! I would love to carry at work since that is were I encounter the most threats, but I want to do it legally (I have CPL). I was an armed guard in LA for 6 years and know that it is a big "NO NO" to go against policy. I'm just not sure about Washington. Any ideas?

July 3rd, 2008, 09:39 AM	#5
CopperKnight Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Spokane area, WA Posts: 4,370	I have read as many of the firearms laws I can in Washington. I have not come across anything that (legally) prohibits you from carrying as a guard, but it is outside of your job description (as you know). You are only considered an "armed" security guard if you are licensed and hired as "armed". All prohibited places would remain the same as a citizen. Matiki usually has some good information on this kind of thing. As a reference, Chapter 308-18 WAC provides the definitions of security guards and armed security guards. __________________ Being happy doesn't mean everything's perfect, but that you've decided to see beyond the imperfections. The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. SgtD

July 3rd, 2008, 09:48 AM	#6
jahwarrior72 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: the raggedy edge Posts: 730	the i live in public housing, and the security they contracted is also unarmed. i spoke with one of the officers; even though they are bonded, and are certified under PA act 235, they are not allowed to be armed while on duty. the officer i spoke to confided that he, and many others, carry concealed. when i asked him if they could be charged, or lose their certification, he said that the worst that could happen is they'd get fired. that's PA; i don't know how it works in your state. __________________ I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. (J.R.R.Tolkien, The Two Towers) http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=19644781

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July 3rd, 2008, 09:31 AM	#2
rljohns Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 526	I'm not from Washington and do not have a law degree nor do I play a lawyer on TV. But my understanding is that you would be under the same requirements as any threat. You need to prove grave bodily harm to you or anyone else in the immediate area. That would include rape of a victim, deadly force used against you, etc. That would not include protection of a customer's property or apprehending a criminal committing a minor crime.

July 3rd, 2008, 09:35 AM	#3
artemis28 Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 112	Have you tried asking the place that issues permits if it is illegal? Or you could try looking up the laws pertaining to private security and see if something in them prohibits you from carrying at work.

July 3rd, 2008, 09:49 AM	#7
Sleepnheat Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Washington Posts: 39	Mattlarson, My company requires all weapons to be "owned" by our employer. If you wish to be armed then they purchase the gun for $1 and sell it back at the end of your employment.

July 3rd, 2008, 10:05 AM	#9
Sleepnheat Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Washington Posts: 39	I guess its better to be alive and in jail then to be dead and 6' down. But I do enjoy my job and it simply pisses my off that I am not allowed to carry when I really should. I guess I could just find a new job... Like I said, I worked in LA for quite some time and the job I currently have is not to far off in regards to the danger.

July 3rd, 2008, 10:47 AM	#10
Ghettokracker71 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 882	Look into working as armed security? I'd never even consider working as unarmed security. Usually I see them while Im legally CCW'ing I always think how I'm actually armed,and better prepared for SHTF than they are.