Piglet

friesepferd said:

I must say I have a hard time believing you, or anybody who claims that "nobody noticed" when they open carried (unless no one else was in the area to begin with, of course).

I'd be willing to accept the idea of once in a while getting away with no one noticing a pistol that was printing badly under a shirt or in a pocket, or even was occasionally exposed as a result of an inadequate cover garment.

But not the idea of no one noticing a fully exposed firearm.

Some of you may find comfort in deluding yourselves that the public is "TOTALLY clueless", as the OP thinks they are. They are not. Or, more accurately, a large number of the public is not - far too large a number to justify the kind of sweeping assertion that the OP has made, or any number of other posters on forums like this one, for this topic seems to be a favorite of many.

Yes, some people do walk around in a daze. They tend to be either stoners, have wires coming out of their ears, debilitating medical or mental conditions or simply a lot on their minds. But most of the public - most - are reasonably observant. I would also say, at least from my experience living in my part of the country, that most people tend to mind their own business and wish to avoid creating unnecessary disturbances.

Whatever may be temporarily taking their attention, they aren't in a total fog. Some are preoccupied, but most will immediately notice - though maybe not comment on - something very much out of the ordinary.

For those of you who insist that the public is clueless, or stupid, or blind, or in a daze, I have a suggestion - a new kind of Walmart walk.

Gentlemen (since most of those posting here are male): The next time you go to Walmart, when you get to the door, unzip your fly and withdraw your genitalia, leaving it in plain view. Then continue with your shopping and see how long it takes for a soccer mom with a 10-year-old daughter to call security. The spectacle created by your indecently exposed private parts is really no more eye-catching or amazing than an exposed firearm, though reactions to one or the other may differ.

As far as a printing firearm (as opposed to an openly carried one) goes, well, the above example is a little extreme. But people nonetheless are accustomed to seeing the bodies of others assume certain established contours that show naturally and fluidly as they move about. Though clothing can hide some of it, a person's physical self will always to some extent show as s/he moves about or stops in various positions. Clothing hangs a certain way on the human frame, and any substantial alteration to the basic shape underneath, in the form of sizeable concealed weapon in this case, is going to cause an anomaly that is very likely to be noticed if somebody's glance happens to fall upon the area in question.

Yes, some people won't notice it, and a lot depends on how bad the printing is. My point is simply that, if someone has stuck a sizeable handgun under a reasonably well-fitting white T-shirt such that there is a big bulge in the shirt, and that person then goes around in public for a while, to claim that no one has noticed it sounds naive.

Maybe no one commented on it, but, provided that the carrier was around a goodly number of people for a substantial amount of time, some one did, almost surely, see it. Probably far more than one. And, though the observers may not have realized what they were looking at, their curiousity will have been aroused, and the wheels are surely turning in some minds. And that is the last thing any of us needs.

What really is of interest to me is what observations have led to the conclusion that the OP (and many others, in past threads) has drawn. That is, how can any of you possibly know for certain what other people notice or don't notice? Consider the following posts:

NKMG19 said:

Paco said:

As nearly as I can make out, your only way of knowing this was the fact that no reactions were observed on the part of the people around you. How that enables you to say that no one noticed is beyond me. There is a huge difference between noticing and saying something.

Something else: The enthusiasm engendered by the "cluelessness" of the public in many concealed carriers frequently gives way to downright gloating, and to the making of insulting comments about the intelligence and powers of observation of total strangers. The eagerness, the gusto, with which the "sheeple" are denigrated seems oddly retaliatory to me, almost as though those making the comments are, in some small way, responding to disappointment at not receiving a certain acknowledgment from the people from whom the gun is supposed to be hidden anyway.

Having tested the waters (in some cases, tempted fate) by failing to adequately conceal their weapons, and a panicked, surprised or otherwise animated reaction still not forthcoming, the carrier (and I'm not necessarily referring to the OP in this thread) races to the forums to gleefully gush about the obliviousness of the public, or less tastefully, how stooooooopid people are.

I don't know - if I were carrying concealed in public and successfully escaped remark by anyone, I'd just consider it a normal day. If I was inadequately concealing (and knew it) and enjoyed the same lack of response, I'd breath a sigh of relief, count my blessings and get a better concealment rig. But I can't imagine my narrow escape leading me to an unflattering conclusion about my fellow persons on the street, and from there to insulting them publicly as a group - particularly with no grounds for the insult, since I couldn't possibly know how close I came to being "made". Being "made" would be a realization that took place in their minds, not mine.

There is something more to this kind of gloating than simple relief or pleasurable wonderment after avoiding the awkward situation of being discovered carrying "concealed", or of avoiding an exchange or a confrontation with the public or with law enforcement if open carrying. From the waspishness of their posts on the subject, it strikes me that there are some licensed carriers on forums like this one that actually wouldn't mind provoking an alarmed reaction from a public that they have chosen preemptively to view in a contemptuous light, a public that they regard as being, on the whole, of a victim mindset, or at least of a non-gun, if not anti-gun, persuasion.

I don't think they desire the inconvenience of being "made" in a situation where it could prove awkward or problematic for them, but only that there's an aspect of scaring or startling the non-gunnies that is not altogether unpleasant to them. It's not a malicious desire, I think, but it seems to show through in some threads.

kpw

Piglet, I don't presume to know how you carry or why you do. Nor do I care. My experience in carrying the last 19 years is pretty close to what the OP stated. If there were in fact, that many people that notice the bulge, the flash or even when I have open carried (rare, but I have), it would be hard for me to believe that no one would have a reaction or some comment in all those years. I sure wouldn't call the public at large stupid for not noticing, maybe indifferent. I would also suggest that your WalMart walk idea has no merit. Your flesh colored genitals hanging out the front of your pants would be a lot more noticeable than a bulge under a tshirt or even a pistol OC'd at your side. I can't believe I just commented on that!
I would also suggest that most people that start the threads about not being noticed are probably fairly new to carrying. Tell me it didn't surprise you when you first started. As for the last few paragraphs, I have a hard time presuming what, how or why people carry the way they do or how they feel about it. I guess I'm not as good at it.

grady

I've carried mostly with a SmartCarry or IWB due to the areas I was in, but the last several weeks I've been carrying OWB and shoulder holster in many different places as I was on vacation. No one noticed because I concealed well.

Tonight I tried the white t-shirt and OWB when the wife and I went out to eat. She didn't notice, and I'll bet $1000 no one else did either. I looked in the mirror and my little cell phone printed more than my gun. Guess I chose well when I picked my holster. I doubt anyone recognized my BUG in the pocket holster either. I think I'll do this more often. When the circumstances allow, I like the idea of carrying OWB with just a cover shirt.

I don't think people around here generally think "gun" if they see a bulge. There are so many other things that people stick on their belts. I do think people around here are generally clueless when it comes to other people carrying guns. I've carried hundreds upon hundreds of times in locations where I would have been asked to leave if it was known I was carrying. I've also been looking hard for concealed guns but have yet to recognize one. It's so uncommon to see anyone other than a policeman carrying a gun that I think most people don't even consider it possible. In the last year, I've seen perhaps one person other than a uniformed police officer carrying a gun. At the time I figured he was a detective, but perhaps he was just OCing.

This is a new freedom for me, that is, carrying concealed but not buried deep, when the consequences of being revealed are only being asked to leave. Let the public remain clueless. Then if I slip up sometime, they might not even know it. Their ignorance is my gain.

I agree with the OP: most people around here seem pretty clueless that some around them are carrying guns. If they knew, some of them would run crying to the police immediately, even though it is entirely legal. Many have accepted the sheep mentality that only the police should have guns. If they only knew who else was carrying, many would be afraid to leave their homes. We're raising a crop of people who are unable and unwilling to defend themselves. Thankfully there are those who have accepted that responsiblity.

LoneRanger

As I've learned to conceal better, I've contemplated that not only am I good at concealing but so are the bad guys. I've had to come up with some non-traditional (off body, etc) methods and I usually pause to think, "Man, some thug could do this or that..." It has helped me be much more alert.

__________________
"One of these days the talking will be over and the citizenry of the United States will decide whether or not to remain free." -- Dan W. Shoemaker

aznav

What's funny, though, is, what I think might be other CCW carriers (or cops in civies), I've spotted the occasional eye that is glued to my 4 o'clock and I am barely printing. Sometimes, you get the knowing eye when they lock on to you. I have graying hair and bland looks so don't look threatening and they move on.

__________________
Entschuldigung Sie, bitte. Ihr Hund brent! ("Excuse me, sir. Your dog is on fire!")

762

it's frickin' hot out today and i had to go to wal-mart to go grocery shopping. i CC as usual OWB at 8:45 or so. i have on my typical cargo shorts and white t-shirt. i know darn well i was printing on multiple occasions. no one seemed to notice or care. if anyone did, they thought nothing of it - white boy in his late 20's packin' heat.

because everyone here is so blazeh, i have not taken much effort to super conceal my side arm. to me, it's really not worth the trouble. if anything, i know the "home boys" are more alert - for reasons i will not even speculate on.

__________________
Yet always, it seems
I cannot fathom the plateau
Without first the pit

MOΛΩN ΛABÉ

LongRider

Glad you did I too thought the analogy was ludicrous too if not moronic. But than I took offense at questioning a long time members credibility so I passed on responding

__________________
Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

Glock Arms Iranian Terrorists to Kill US soldiers

dnowell

If I see a guy with a gun and I don't know him, I'm certainly not going to walk up and say something. Not everyone with a gun is a good guy; not every normal-looking person is a good guy. My girlfriend saw a man downtown with a revolver IN HAND under his coat; she certainly didn't say anything to him.

People go way out of their way to avoid drawing your attention if they're afraid of you.

Piglet

LongRider said:

Whether you approved of what I suggested or not, there would be no reason to question my credibility. The issue of credibility arises when deciding whether to believe someone's assertions, and I made none during the course of the "Walmart walk" suggestion itself - though afterwards I did offer an opinion about how noticeable it would be relative to an openly carried firearm.

It wasn't an analogy.

Perhaps you think my taste is poor, though I took special care to word things inoffensively. I can't imagine how much less offensively it could have been worded, short of the topic not being raised at all, which maybe you think it shouldn't have been. But if that's the case, then it would be more proper (and polite) to address the point I was trying to make and label my suggestion "irrelevant" or to say, in the more thoughtful words of kpw, that it "has no merit". There was nothing vulgar or even coarse in what I said, so I fail to see why I deserve the label "moronic" (which, despite its negative antecedent, was levelled at me).

And so passed on the only opportunity you had to give a rational, methodical, compelling presentation of your reasons for the criticism (and insult) you offered.

I'll concede that my suggestion was silly. Not bad, nor wrong, nor moronic, nor vulgar, but just plain silly. That's not to say that I apologize for it in the least, but merely that it dealt with a topic that many people, even as (mature?) adults, have reservations about mentioning in polite conversation, though I think that fact may suggest more about their own insecurity than it indicates refined societal mores.

No hard feelings, LongRider. And just to show you I mean it, I'm going to use a rare smiley face! Three of them, in fact!

LongRider

You initiate your post by attacking a member's honesty, integrity and credibility in your very first sentence
and are offended that I find your credibility questionable? Although that is NOT what I said. What I said was I was am offended that you found it necessary to attack a members integrity. I did not say a word about what I thought about yours in my previous post
Yes your analogy between walking around with ones genitalia exposed is in anyway comparable to printing or even OCing is as I said ludicrous. That you can not see how far out in left field the comparison is means we have no foundation for rational discussion on this topic.

__________________
Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

Glock Arms Iranian Terrorists to Kill US soldiers