Hog Rider

Here's the problem, a synopsis of Michigan law says:

Responsibilities of Individuals With a CCW License:

An individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol who is stopped by a police officer (traffic stop or otherwise) while in possession of a pistol shall immediately disclose to the police officer that he or she is carrying a concealed pistol either on their person or in their motor vehicle.

Failure to disclose this information to a police officer carries the following penalties:

First offense = State Civil Infraction - $500 fine and 6-month CCW license suspension.

Second offense = State Civil Infraction - $1000 fine and CCW license revocation.


I don't see where it makes the distinction between carrying, or transporting...... seems the obligation is to "inform" when stopped, and it doesn't say the requirement is only relevant in Michigan. If somebody knows for "certain", I'd appreciate an answer.

CornstalkCop

I'm an Illinois LEO. As long as your firearm is in a case and unloaded [ammo CAN be in the case in a magazine] and out of reach, you are legal. Unless you are traveling through a city with an ordnance against firearms, then you can be cited or other.

SO....either way, just STFU about a gun in the car.

And for the love of all things, don't be handling guns in the car when pulled over!

__________________
Be professional, be polite, and have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

Glock 30SF...ready for the gunfight!

ispcapt

CornstalkCop is correct. The gun only has to be unloaded and in a case. The case has to be made specifically for carrying a firearm and have some method of closure, ie, tie, buckle, snap, etc. The case does not have to be locked but it does have to be secured by some method. Ammo can be carried in the same case as the gun but no ammo can be in the gun. Mags can be loaded but no loaded mags in the gun. To comply with FOPA it is recommended the firearm be carried in a part of the vehicle that is inaccessible to the occupants. IL law doesn't require that but FOPA does.

PMIPT was lucky he only had a minimum delay. His gun wasn't cased. He could have been cited for uncased gun and the gun confiscated until trial and the judge released the gun. He got a break that day. Actually he was double lucky. Unloading his gun while moving to the side of the road is considered a furtive movement and not smart. He's lucky he didn't get a .40 stuck in his ear until the situation was secured. Even in states that have CCW don't go handling your gun when getting pulled over. You might not get as lucky as PMIPT. You might get shot. You might have the best intentions in the world but to the LEO walking up to the car all he knows is someone he doesn't know has a gun in his hand.
You can go to the ISP's website http://www.isp.state.il.us/ and click on Firearms on the right side. That will take you to a page with other info where you can click on links depending on what info you want. Two places to answer your questions - one is the FAQ section. There it will tell you how to legally transport a firearm in IL. It will also give you the legal definition of a case which is defined by statute. Another link will take you to where you can find municipalities that have ordinances more restrictive than state law. Not all of the municipalities listed actually have more restrictive ordinances. Many have adopted ordinances which mirror state statute or their ordinances are directed at dealers in the form of zoning laws.

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183 FBINA

KevinDooley

Your distinction is that it is a MICHIGAN STATE LAW... notice that the penalties are called STATE CIVIL INFRACTIONS... Michigan law is only applicable in Michigan - even in states that recognize the Michigan CCW, you have to follow that state's laws on CCW, not Michigan's, while you are there.

__________________
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes

The will to win is worthless if you do not have the will to prepare. -Thane Yost

kentuckycarry

This is not true. In Illinois it does not have to be locked up. It can be in any container designed to carry a gun. If you take some canvas and sew it together and put a zipper on it, and you designed it for your gun, its legal. It does not have to be locked but has to be secured (closed). You can carry it in the case the gun came in. The ammo can be in the same case with the gun, it does not have to be seperate nor does it have to be in the back of the vehicle. It can be on the seat right next to you.

T Bone

To PMIPT, do you have any clue as to just how lucky you were? You carried into a State that does not allow it (a felony), handled the weapon in the course of being pulled over (a dangerous act in itself which seems to have been in a successful effort to avoid being charged with a felony), and then notified the officer of the unloaded weapon on the seat! Gotta ask man, WTH were you thinking??? You were VERY close to a lot worse than being inconvenienced with an hour on the road side.

Did you travel into a State carrying not knowing the law? (Why would anyone do that?). Maybe you didn't, as you unloaded the weapon when being pulled over. So you knew it was illegal, then why speed?

Lucky also the Mods have left the post intact, as generally they'd delete or close a thread/post discussing an illegal activity (thanks to the Mods for leaving this one intact, it can be educational).

Always check the laws of the State you are going to or through before you get there. And to the OP, you've already got the answer, but to reaffirm, our Michigan CPL's rules are only applicable in Michigan. In another State, we go by their laws, including any restrictions/responsibilities on carrying if they choose to recognize our Michigan CPL's.

__________________
Regards, T Bone.


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety". Benjamin Franklin

JimH58

I live in Kentucky a very gun friendly state and I have my CCDW permit. I traveled to Minnesota last summer to do some fshing and had to travel through Illinois and Wisconsin which are both non-friendly gun states. Before crossing into Illinois I literally pulled over unloaded my Smith & Wesson, locked it in a gun case and stored the ammo in my luggage and kept it there until I got to MN. You must know the laws of the states you travel through and respect those laws like it or not. My son goes to school in Maryland and I have to do the same thing when going there to visit him. Maryland is a may issue state but is very strict. I make use of the website carryconcealed.net for this type of information.

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JimH
Kentucky
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S&W 442, Bersa 380, S&W 9mm M&P, Springfield XD40c
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Member: NRA, USCCA

tns0038

Your transporting a firearm under Federal guidelines. And since you’re not using your CCL, and Federal Guidelines do not say anything regarding information LEO’s of firearm position, I would not.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USRVCarCarry.pdf
more information in PDF format

tns0038

Really good post.

Thanks

Zsnake

I just completed a NRA course and a lawyer told us about the FIREARMS OWNERS PROTECTION ACT....TO WHIT........SEE BOLD PRINT BELOW



Firearm Owners Protection Act
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U.S. Firearms
Legal Topics
Assault weapons ban
ATF (law enforcement)
Brady Handgun Act
Federal Firearms License
Firearm case law
Firearm Owners Protection Act
Gun Control Act of 1968
Gun laws in the U.S. — by state
Gun laws in the U.S. — federal
Gun politics in the U.S.
National Firearms Act
Second Amendment
Straw purchase
Sullivan Act (New York)
Violent Crime Control Act
The Firearm Owners' Protection Act (FOPA), Pub. L. No. 99-308, 100 Stat. 449 (May 19, 1986), codified at 18 U.S.C. § 921 et seq., is a United States federal law that revised many statutes in the Gun Control Act of 1968.

Contents [hide]
1 Federal Firearms License regulatory reform
2 Machine gun ban (The Hughes Amendment)
3 "Safe passage" provision
4 Registry prohibition
5 Clarification of prohibited persons
6 See also
7 References



[edit] Federal Firearms License regulatory reform
Under the Gun Control Act of 1968, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, now the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATFE) was given wide latitude on the enforcement of regulations pertaining to Federal Firearms License (FFL) holders. Allegations of abuse by ATF inspectors soon arose from the National Rifle Association (NRA) and certain targeted Federal firearms licensees.

In the Report of the Subcommittee on the Constitution of the Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate, 97th Congress, Second Session (February 1982), a bipartisan subcommittee (consisting of 3 Republicans and 2 Democrats) of the United States Senate investigated the Second Amendment and reported its findings. The report stated:

The conclusion is thus inescapable that the history, concept, and wording of the second amendment to the Constitution of the United States, as well as its interpretation by every major commentator and court in the first half century after its ratification, indicates that what is protected is an individual right of a private citizen to own and carry firearms in a peaceful manner.[1]

It concluded that seventy-five percent of Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives prosecutions were "constitutionally improper", especially on Second Amendment issues.[2]

The Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 addressed the abuses noted in the 1982 Senate Judiciary Subcommittee report. It reopened interstate sales of long guns on a limited basis, allowed ammunition shipments through the U.S. Postal Service (a partial repeal of the Gun Control Act), ended record keeping on ammunition sales, except for armor piercing, permitted travel between states supportive of Second Amendment rights even through those areas less supportive of these rights, and addressed several other issues that had effectively restricted Second Amendment rights. However, the act also contained a provision that banned the sale of machine guns manufactured after the date of enactment to civilians, restricting sales of these weapons to the military and law enforcement. Thus, in the ensuing years, the limited supply of these arms available to civilians has caused an enormous increase in their price, with most costing in excess of $10,000. Regarding these fully automatic firearms owned by private citizens in the United States, political scientist Earl Kruschke said "approximately 175,000 automatic firearms have been licensed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (the federal agency responsible for administration of the law) and evidence suggests that none of these weapons has ever been used to commit a violent crime."[3]

The gun rights movement lobbied Congress to pass the FOPA to prevent the abuse of regulatory power -- in particular, to address claims that the ATF was repeatedly inspecting FFL holders for the apparent purpose of harassment intended to drive the FFL holders out of business (as the FFL holders would constantly be having to tend to ATF inspections instead of to customers).

The Act mandated that ATF compliance inspections can be done only once per year and, at a minimum, must be done once every 3 years. An exception to the "once per year" rule exists if multiple record-keeping violations are recorded in an inspection, in which case the ATF may do a follow-up inspection. The main reason for a follow-up inspection would be if guns could not be accounted for.


[edit] Machine gun ban (The Hughes Amendment)
As debate for FOPA was in its final stages, Rep. William J. Hughes (D-N.J.) proposed an amendment to ban the civilian ownership or transfer of any fully-automatic weapon which was not registered by May 19, 1986. However, any such weapon manufactured and registered before the May 19 cutoff could still be legally owned and transferred by civilians.

Controversy exists regarding the validity of the amendment's inclusion into FOPA. The vote to include the amendment took place at night, when many of the lawmakers who would be opposed to its inclusion were not present. Also, the vote was an unrecorded voice vote, which some contend was inconclusive.[4]


[edit] "Safe passage" provision
One of the law's provisions was that persons traveling from one place to another for a shooting sports event or any other lawful activity cannot be arrested for a firearms offense in a state that has strict gun control laws if the traveler is just passing through (short stops for food and gas) and the firearms and ammunition are not immediately accessible, unloaded and, in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment, in a locked container.[5]

An example of this would be that someone driving from Virginia to a competition in Vermont with a locked hard case containing an unloaded handgun and a box of ammunition in the trunk could not be prosecuted in New Jersey or New York City for illegal possession of a handgun provided that they did not stop in New Jersey or New York for an extended period of time.
[edit] Registry prohibition
The act also forbade the U.S. Government or any agency of it from keeping a registry directly linking non-National Firearms Act firearms to their owners, the specific language of this law ( Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 926 (2) (a)) being: No such rule or regulation prescribed after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary's authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation.

The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993 created a national background check system to prevent firearms sales to such "prohibited persons." In order to comply with the prohibition on a Federal registry of non-NFA items, records of background checks are legally required to be destroyed after 24 hours, however the BATFE has constantly made excuses to keep the computer records longer than the law allows for "demographic and census reasons" and due to this the law isn't properly enforced. The proper enforcement of this provision has been a goal of gun rights groups.


[edit] Clarification of prohibited persons