Almost drew gun today, Did spray mace (kinda long) - Page 12

chains1240 · June 26th, 2009, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dldeuce

Both the OP and the owner referred to the dog as sub-adult, 3/4 grown. We're getting into denial now. It was a puppy. According to his own account in the OP, a puppy ran up to him. He maced him. More importantly, he reached to draw a gun, and then he called the cops. Not a marauding pack of pitbulls on a killing spree. A puppy.

The reason I called the police, as I stated to the 911 operator was because I lifted my shirt and touched my pistol. Not because of the dogs or the owner but because of what I did. Although brandishing in Michigan is defined as waving or displaying a weapon in a threatening manner as to intimidate a person and I didn't know whether or not the owner saw my pistol I needed to make sure that I was the first person to make a report and tell my side of the story. Cover your butt with both hands. If the owner was vindictive he could easily have called the police and changed the story to make it appear that I had brandished my weapon at him after the incident. BTW did I mention that I am in college perusing a degree in law enforcement and that one of my hobbies is researching penal codes in Michigan relating to Firearms laws.

dldeuce · June 26th, 2009, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chains1240

Just to alleviate more confusion. As stated in my original post I did not DRAW my gun, I covered it with my hand. I did not grab it by the handle even, I lifted my shirt and with a flat hand I placed my hand over the pistol. How is my original post being edited and revised in the minds of someone else when it was clearly written?

I didn't mean to say you did draw your gun. I just think it's ridiculous that you thought a gun was required at all. You maced the dog. You start reaching for a gun. You called the cops. You made an enormous scene out of the whole thing. I just think it was an absurd over-reaction. That's my opinion.

airworthy · June 26th, 2009, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chains1240

Just to alleviate more confusion. As stated in my original post I did not DRAW my gun, I covered it with my hand. I did not grab it by the handle even, I lifted my shirt and with a flat hand I placed my hand over the pistol. How is my original post being edited and revised in the minds of someone else when it was clearly written?

Does everybody else see how people twist words to prove their point? First the OP called the dog a "puppy" when he said no such thing. Now he's "drawing his gun" when he said no such thing. People have to twist things and refuse to answer a simple question when they can't prove their point any other way.

dldeuce · June 26th, 2009, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chains1240

I am in college perusing a degree in law enforcement

Somehow I'm not surprised. I'm sorry chains, but this just makes it sound more like mall ninja stuff. If I were you, I'd read up on what a lawyer is going to cost you per hour.

airworthy · June 26th, 2009, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chains1240

The reason I called the police, as I stated to the 911 operator was because I lifted my shirt and touched my pistol. Not because of the dogs or the owner but because of what I did. Although brandishing in Michigan is defined as waving or displaying a weapon in a threatening manner as to intimidate a person and I didn't know whether or not the owner saw my pistol I needed to make sure that I was the first person to make a report and tell my side of the story. Cover your butt with both hands. If the owner was vindictive he could easily have called the police and changed the story to make it appear that I had brandished my weapon at him after the incident. BTW did I mention that I am in college perusing a degree in law enforcement and that one of my hobbies is researching penal codes in Michigan relating to Firearms laws.

Your wasting you time with him.

He knows everthing already. I'm sure he's an expert of the laws of our state and the other 49 as well.

dldeuce · June 26th, 2009, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airworthy

Now he's "drawing his gun" when he said no such thing. People have to twist things and refuse to answer a simple question when they can't prove their point any other way.

Now look who's twisting the words. At least Chains quoted me accurately. "He reached to draw a gun." If you're going to complain about me twisting words, don't mis-quote me when you do it.

nucone · June 26th, 2009, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dldeuce

My point is that you'd better think twice about flipping your own switch and drawing a gun on a dog that's just running up to you. In the aftermath, you might realize that you would have been way better off even if the dog did actually bite you.

As if anyone can actually predict what a dog (or any other animal for that matter) will or will not do. I cannot understand how any sane person would ever argue that someone would be better off if they just let the dog bite them. Why stop there? Why not just give yourself up to the mugger too?

Fortunately, this is not a Submissive Carry Forum.

airworthy · June 26th, 2009, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dldeuce

I didn't mean to say you did draw your gun. I just think it's ridiculous that you thought a gun was required at all. You maced the dog. You start reaching for a gun. You called the cops. You made an enormous scene out of the whole thing. I just think it was an absurd over-reaction. That's my opinion.

Your words not mine. You didn't mean to but you did.

airworthy · June 26th, 2009, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chains1240

the reason i called the police, as i stated to the 911 operator was because i lifted my shirt and touched my pistol. Not because of the dogs or the owner but because of what i did. Although brandishing in michigan is defined as waving or displaying a weapon in a threatening manner as to intimidate a person and i didn't know whether or not the owner saw my pistol i needed to make sure that i was the first person to make a report and tell my side of the story. Cover your butt with both hands. If the owner was vindictive he could easily have called the police and changed the story to make it appear that i had brandished my weapon at him after the incident. btw did i mention that i am in college perusing a degree in law enforcement and that one of my hobbies is researching penal codes in michigan relating to firearms laws.

Exactly. We can't play gun slingers up here in Michigan

dldeuce · June 26th, 2009, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nucone

As if anyone can actually predict what a dog (or any other animal for that matter) will or will not do. I cannot understand how any sane person would ever argue that someone would be better off if they just let the dog bite them. Why stop there? Why not just give yourself up to the mugger too?

Fortunately, this is not a Submissive Carry Forum.

My point was that, let me be real careful here, displaying a gun or reaching for a gun can have way more serious consequences than getting bit by a dog. There are way better alternatives to dealing with a puppy than to start reaching for a gun. In my state, that could be a class B misdemeanor disorderly conduct with a $2000 fine and 180 days in jail. Could be failure to conceal with a class A misdemeanor, $4000 fine, and a year in jail. Could be a ride down to the police station, a night in jail, confiscation of his gun, and lawyer fees out the wazoo trying to defend against that kind of a charge. Not to mention a civil suit. Personally, I'd rather get bit by the puppy.

We have all these human analogies. Why is it that people on the Internet are so bad with analogies? Let me try one. Chains is walking down the street when all the sudden, it happens! A shady looking bum walks right up to him. Even though he was only 3/4 grown (ie 55 years old

), Chains maces him and then reaches for his gun. It just doesn't work does it? Maybe he was just bumming a buck?

Personally, I'd think a grown man could defend himself against a puppy boxer without having to reach for a gun or mace. He shouldn't have to, and having been in those shoes myself having to fend off two adult german shepherds by far more aggressive than what we've seen here, I wouldn't be arguing with just the mace. The relevant topic for this forum though is the gun. A grown healthy man reaching for a gun to fend off a puppy is going just a tad far. We've beat it to death, and we can keep beating it, but that's my opinion.

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