ICIMP

You may add me to that list.

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NRA
WAC

MrGray

Who would I want armed in a crowded place where my wife and children are at the time?

Me. My wife. And both of my children. All of us are licensed to carry concealed.

Regards,
Mr. Gray.

Rotorblade

It is one thing to defend against a direct attack on you in the street or in a business. It is another to have to shoot inside a crowded place like a church.

And yet it's another thing to have to sit in the pew unarmed waiting for someone to save you, hoping that you're at the same service that the "experts" are attending.

GBS

Meaning no disrespect, who wants to go first when a crazed gunman is shooting at anything that moves?
All the ccw people are responsible citizens, have taken tests, gone to safety seminars, passed range requirements (at least in my state), passed government background checks and yet, that is not enough?

I do not understand what would be the defining test that would make it reasonable to carry?

tangoseal

My response:

Unless you can afford to shoot your main self def gun atleast 100 rds per week or 300 rds per month practicing you ought not consider your self a good candidate for carry.

I honestly think that training is your best tool and without it or lack of using its resourcefulness then no you should not be allowed (not by law but by your own self evaluation) to carry. Period.

I have no reservations that when faced with a situation reliant upon my gun, I will not have to be reliant upon my thought process rather I will be reliant upon my trained and beat into me instinct.

Consider the wisdom that I have acquired through deep motivated thought and tons of lead down range.

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"I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

MinistrMalic

Jerry,

I am an elder in a church. I am the senior pastor. This is a question that has come up time and time again.

There is a significant issue that I wonder if you have thought about. In a megachurch, there are resources to hire off duty LEOs to keep the facilities secure. There are THOUSANDS of people running around. That is a large responsibility and a logistical nightmare. I know that one of the largest churches in our area has a professional security detail...and I also know that the cost of that detail is slightly more than my total annual budget.

What about the average church in America, though? The average church has about 70-75 in attendance (and that average includes the Willow Creek [25,000], Saddleback [25,000], and Lakewood Church [30,000] numbers too!). There may not BE any off duty LEO's, and a congregation needs to have someone there armed in case of an incident. CCW holders are the most law-abiding citizens around and have consciously decided against being victims. They are the very people I want armed.

Take our church, for instance. We are about 150-180 with gusts up to 260 for major holidays. Two buildings, one for the main service and one for nursery and education. We have a single LEO who is a regular attendee, but he gets called out (he does fatal crash investigations) so he can't always be there. We have probably 8-10 guys who have their CCW, and all of them are good men and good shots. Will they be AMAZING shots when the stuff hits the fan? Maybe not, but I trust their maturity to consider what is behind their target and to neutralize the threat. Do they need to be careful? Of course, just like they would need to be in any crowded environment.

I also know who the best shot in our church is (it ain't me!), and he has a strategic position where he sits that gives him the best chance at a clear shot if the need arises in the areas that a BG would be most likely to make a move. The others in our church who carry know who he is and their own responsibilities too. That is one of the joys of being in a smaller church, IMAO. I know who is there, and they know me. (Yeah, for the record, I'm armed too...but think about where I will be [preaching on stage] and you'll realize that I am not much help for most situations. Too many people behind any threat)

I have always said, if we are in the news I don't want it to say "Gunman kills 4 at _____ Church." If we HAVE to be in the news for an active shooter, it better be "4 kill gunman at ________ Church."

In AZ every church has the right to post a no firearms sign. I almost posted a "firearms welcome for all law abiding citizens" sign! I don't mind them one bit. The more good guys I have, the better. It doesn't bother our other elders either, though none of them have a CCW or carry. (I'm working on them...)

I hope that kept to the OP and what you were looking to discuss. God bless, and be safe.

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"...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36)
Here is my blog if you're interested :)

dukalmighty

I believe that you should be able to carry anywhere allowed by law,and in all reality that should be anywhere,except in controlled places like courtrooms etc.that have metal detectors and armed LEO on site.

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I like Poetry,Long Walks On The Beach,And Poking Dead Things With A Stick

obxned

It's funny how psycho-killers seem to be smart enough to plan their evil for places where the victims will be defenseless. Just knowing that the members of that church can and will defend themselves could cause the shooter to do his murder elsewhere.

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http://www.obxammo.com/

There is only one gun law in this country, the 2nd Amendment. All else is bureaucratic nonsense that I choose to comply with or not at my discretion.

When governments make laws, they must consider the unintended consequences.

Censored

Having recently rejoined my congregation after a 30 year hiatus (moved away), I became aware the board had hired an off duty LEO to be there only at one of the weekly services. It seems ridiculous to me that they feel a BG would choose that particular 2 hour window to "make his statement". The building is busy all week, has services daily, and houses a religious school. I am suggesting the formation of a security committee to further evaluate the possibilities.

SleepingZ

So, only people with enough resources to afford to shoot should be allowed to carry, very interesting. Anyone with-out the resources has no right of self defense, ah, yes I can see it, their life has less value, now it makes sense.

Z

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9 out of 10 engineers agree that 1 out of 10 engineers are idiots.