Really Want Unlimited CCW in Church? - Page 8

GBS · July 5th, 2009, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wesley

2 points I'd like to make.

I carried on Bourbon street in New Orleans once. It was a mass of people. I likely could not have safely gotten a shot off and would not have tried unless I was confident of my backstop.

That being said, I do follow the law and respect others' wishes.

If a perp fires a shot - and the crowd knows it, within a few seconds you will be the closest person with no one in your way (if ones flight instinct does not take over).

If the church I attend makes it known ccw is not welcome, I would find another church. While everyone has rights, my responsibility is to not knowingly step on their rights.

rhinokrk · July 5th, 2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryM

...We have only two that carry; a friend who is a good shot, and myself...

...But if we ever got larger, and had people with CHL who wanted to carry it would be my recommendation that "we" examine the individual, assess his maturity and skill,and provide some orientation before we would allow him to carry...

Regards,
Jerry

Just a couple things,

How do you know that there are only 'two' of you that carry, and why wouldn't you assume that some people don't think you need to know they carry?

Also what exactly makes you the authority on who could/could not carry in your church, and who decides you are qualified to make such decisions?

I tell you the same thing I tell politicians. Stay out of my life.

To answer your question, I say Yes, anyone without a felony who goes to my church.

ccw9mm · July 5th, 2009, 09:39 PM

Quote:

... it would be my recommendation that "we" examine the individual, assess his maturity and skill,and provide some orientation before we would allow him to carry...

And let's be certain we know the limits of such hubris. One can dictate whether another remains a member of the organization. However, a person has no authority over whether another carries self-defense tools on his/her own behalf.

Careful on the inordinate pride and arrogance (hubris). It's one of the seven deadlies, and it's particularly bad when flying in the face of a person's right to life and to defend it.

kentuckycarry · July 5th, 2009, 09:44 PM

I'm baffled. I dont understand the singling out of churches. Why is church any different than a restaurant or a movie theatre?
Sounds like ONLY you and your "chosen few" are good enough to be allowed in your church with a gun.
As far as who'd I'd want in church with a gun? ME and whoever else wants to carry there....

kentuckycarry · July 5th, 2009, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBS

The crazed gunman seems to be getting more respect than the GG.

If one were to summarize the discussion so far:
The unknown assailant entered the church with his weapon drawn, while the untrained ccw holder fired wildly into the crowd.

Give us a little more credit...

OMG. Great point !!

rmw · July 5th, 2009, 09:55 PM

I will go to allot of trouble to not go to places that will not allow me to carry . I don't have to go to church and I don't believe anyone's God would want them to be a victim .I would feel better if everyone with a cpl was carrying in church

jjkjr · July 5th, 2009, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBS

The crazed gunman seems to be getting more respect than the GG.

If one were to summarize the discussion so far:
The unknown assailant entered the church with his weapon drawn, while the untrained ccw holder fired wildly into the crowd.

Give us a little more credit...

i agree...a lot more credit.........

MinistrMalic · July 6th, 2009, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chunkychuck

As a pastor, I have recently purchased my first handgun. I plan to obtain my CCP. Will I carry at my church at that point? I will if I feel I can at all times keep the weapon concealed (I don't wear a jacket and frequently move back and forth from the platform to seating area). If I choose to carry I will let my leadership (3) know but that is it.

Great job Chuck. Now get out there and practice with it!

I carry in church every Sunday, and other than the other CCW holders and LEO, no one has ever "made" me on a Sunday morning. I am not shy about being a gun owner, though, so that could possibly be people just not mentioning it to me.

MinistrMalic · July 6th, 2009, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wesley

As far as Church carry goes, I don't understand that either. In my opinion, Church leaders are just that. They are not infallible. I do not worship any "man" nor do I let any other man make any decisions for me.

I performed an extensive Biblical study of defense and arms. There is overwhelming evidence that bearing arms and specifically protecting your family is the proper thing to do. There is no Biblical support for banning arms in Church.

I feel like Church leaders are too much like politicians. They know better than the lowly congregation. Since there are so many denominations, all with differing opinions, obviously the leaders can't agree on what is right. I would suggest that everyone should check out the Bible for themselves and follow it. Blindly following Church leaders (or anyone else) is not wise in my opinion.

That being said, I do follow the law and respect others' wishes. Any Church making up non-Biblically based rules and trying to "play God" themselves is not for me.

I think I hear your heart here, but please give us some more slack. I think that most church leaders are just trying to do the best they can. I know that most I run into (and I know a lot of them in my area) are not trying to be politicians, though the church can be a very political animal.

I have written an article on a biblical theology of self defense, and anyone can PM me if they want it. That said, please don't make CCW the litmus test of church attendance. If someone came to my church because I allowed them to be armed (which we do of course) rather than to be part of the family and serve the Lord I would be very leery of that person's motivations. If their heart is to serve Him by serving His people and helping them stay safe, then awesome.

BTW, every Sunday I pray that the Lord would put a shield around our facilities as part of my morning prayers. I pray that protection over people coming and going and ask God to keep us safe. And I ask Him that if He chooses to use my firearm to answer my prayer that He give me notice, a cool head and a true aim.

86thecat · July 6th, 2009, 01:38 AM

Most recent mass shootings have been carried out where the victims were unarmed. Why would a church desire to be a soft target rich environment?

An organization with concerns of collateral damage if members defend themselves could offer training specific to their location and strongly request attendance by any members wishing to CCW.

July 5th, 2009, 09:44 PM	#74
kentuckycarry VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: kentucky Posts: 2,193	I'm baffled. I dont understand the singling out of churches. Why is church any different than a restaurant or a movie theatre? Sounds like ONLY you and your "chosen few" are good enough to be allowed in your church with a gun. As far as who'd I'd want in church with a gun? ME and whoever else wants to carry there.... __________________ Prepare for the worst and hope it never happens

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July 5th, 2009, 09:55 PM	#76
rmw Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 40	I will go to allot of trouble to not go to places that will not allow me to carry . I don't have to go to church and I don't believe anyone's God would want them to be a victim .I would feel better if everyone with a cpl was carrying in church

July 6th, 2009, 01:38 AM	#80
86thecat Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Central WA Posts: 104	Most recent mass shootings have been carried out where the victims were unarmed. Why would a church desire to be a soft target rich environment? An organization with concerns of collateral damage if members defend themselves could offer training specific to their location and strongly request attendance by any members wishing to CCW.