JerryM

Hi all,

We have several times discussed CCW in church. It has been normally in the context of whether the church leadership has the right to limit it, or if there is grave danger in the church.

I would like to explore the question of whether it is a good idea to allow unlimited CCW as long as one has a license.
Here are some thoughts.

1. A church, during the regular services, is relatively crowded.
2. The average CHL holder is not an especially good shot, and has not had the experience of having to make decisions re using deadly force.
3 There may be dangers to others if a shot is missed or a bullet penetrated completely through.
4. We do not want the CHL holder to do more damage than the BG.


Before we moved into our new building we rented a store front. The main entrance would place anyone who entered directly in front of a SS class of children.
If one were to shoot someone as he entered (assuming it was obviously necessary) he would have to take into account the class directly behind the target. It would require movement to move out of the direct line with the children, and to kneel to increase the chances that the shot that missed or penetrated through offered the minimum chance of hurting the children.

Obviously, it is much better to stop the threat before he enters the building or the sanctuary. That cannot be depended upon however, and the BG may get into the service, and attempt to harm or kill someone in the service.
There would be mayhem in all probability, but it could be that men in the immediate vicinity could overpower the BG without shooting.

So with such scenarios in mind, would you really want just anyone with a license to carry and maybe cause more harm than the BG if he was unwise or unskilled? I would not.

My own thinking is that if I were in a position of authority I would want to have someone who I knew was capable and could act wisely.
Before I would approve carrying by any individual I would want him to go through some sort of orientation and a test of skill. I would want to be satisfied he/she was a mature individual and would not see himself as a knight in shining armor or an off duty LEO.

I know that there are other aspects of a plan, but I would like to limit this thread to the question of who would you want to be carrying in a crowded place where your wife or children were at the time.

Regards,
Jerry

Blackeagle

Lets see, movie theaters can be awfully crowded. So can restaurants, public transportation, stores, etc. Even walking down the sidewalk, a CCW holder could suddenly encounter a crowd or group of people. Should we ban concealed carry from all those places?

JoeTiger

Because of similar concerns, our church has a designated security team--entirely made up of off-duty LEO's. For every service, they are strategically placed throughout the church. This way, they can asses any potential threat--regardless of where they enter the building—and deal with it appropriately (and with minimal risk to others).

__________________
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." -- Ephesians 6:12 (KJV)

Japle

Who sets the standards? If someone shoots a 125 with their Glock 9mm (IDPA Sharpshooter) is that good enough or would you require a 120 (Expert)? Is military training OK, or is Thunder Ranch required?
I can see big trouble if you tell your members they have to meet some arbitrary standard to exercise their Constitutional rights.

Would you also require an armed person to be a church member? If he or she is not, they'd be acting as a paid armed guard. Good luck finding someone who'll stand and fight for $12 an hour and not save his own butt by running.

There have been examples of legally armed church members stopping attackers, but I'm not aware of any instances of them shooting innocents.
Sounds like you're looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

__________________
John
Cape Canaveral

JohnK87

Accuracy isn't critical, if it was I'd use a sniper up in the balcony.

Maturity, observation skills and communications are key.

__________________
If you are a warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that the bad man will not come today. No one can be "on" 24/7, but if you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself..."Baa."

JerryM

In general your replies have not been responsive to the question asked.


Regards,
Jerry

TucAzRider

Jerry,.. Your putting the horse on life-support just to kick it,.. I'm sure I don't stand alone when I say this topic is getting old already.. We all understand you have your oppinion and we do to,.. Let it go,.. Let it go,..

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BkCo1

People that have permits have gone through a lot hoops to get thier permits. I have no problem with them carrying in church or any where else. Most can shoot as good as LE or better. You sound like you are part of the "blood will run in the streets" crowd. We have better judgement than than you give us credit for.

Semper Fi
Peace through firepower

Rotorblade

I know that there are other aspects of a plan, but I would like to limit this thread to the question of who would you want to be carrying in a crowded place where your wife or children were at the time.

Regards,
Jerry

Jerry.....you present the same argument that the anti-ccw folks present. Using it in the context of Church doesn't make it any more desirable. Like others have said, or will say...what about malls, swap meets or any other venue where large crowds gather?
When the SHTF I'd rather have someone with a CCW and minimal training next to me as opposed to someone who is completely unarmed.

GBS

Oh... I thought he meant caliber.

You Jahova witnesses can only carry 22's.
Catholics and Protestants, 38 specials.