ccw9mm

As you indicated, Michigan is a bit strict when it comes to dictating terms of carry. So, that's your legal yardstick.

In Oregon, where you carry is fine, alcohol or not, restaurant, party, special event or whatever. So long as you're not "under the influence" and affected badly, the Oregon statutes don't criminalize you and string you up for merely being there.

But here's the thing: parties and "drinking" gatherings are where many people get revved up, excited, engaged, whether it's simply mixing it up with people or looking for trouble. Among other things, it's a public setting, hence feeling "dissed" can be taken as a public embarrassment by evil sorts of people. Very easily, folks who aren't handling their liquor well can blow sideways due to lowered inhibitions and reduced judgment.

Given that, I very rarely attend gatherings of this sort. Dinner with friends is one thing. A small "dinner party" or other sedate thing at someone's home or small venue is fine. But, at a bar or other place where drinking and carousing are the main goals, it's just not my thing.


Yup. That right there solves (sidesteps) a lot of problems.


Data Point

Back when, at one of the last parties of this sort that I attended with friends, friends of friends, and remote acquaintances from school, there was someone I knew vaguely who decided to "blow sideways" that night.

He apparently incorrectly interpreted things that folks were saying, near him, and (of course) he took offense and saw it as a public "diss" of him, his family and his honor.

Well, the SOB was a bad, evil drunk. Who knew? Apparently, his close friends did, though I did not. What's more, he was extremely fit and strong. Basically, I was in the wrong place at the wrong moment. He got in my face, for no other reason than I was in his line of sight at the moment he decided to get angry at things. I had not been speaking with him, nor to his buddies, and I'd not disparaged him in any way. To this day, I don't know what it was that got his goat. But, I was in his cross hairs ... and in danger. I knew it as it brewed, but there wasn't anything I could do since it was about ~10secs from initial signals to being cornered and seriously threatened.

Long story short, I still don't know how I avoided getting badly pounded, or worse. About a half dozen mutual friends all helped see him to the door, as I and others fell into the background to get out of his "aim." This was ten years prior to my carrying, though I was armed with other items. I simply didn't like my chances, against such a powerful, ugly fighter (wrestling champ and near street thug that he was).

That was it, for me. I left a moment later. I have never, ever attended such a thing again. Won't do it. It's just too darned risky. You might well have control over yourself. But that's only 10% of the problem. The other 90% is what you cannot possibly control, half of which you might not even see coming. That's the problem.

Moral of the story: There is no way to control events in such a situation, other than to not be there or to prevail. I choose to not be there. It's more assured, all the way around.

__________________
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
Thoughts: Justifiable self defense.
Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
Deal with evil through strength. Affirm the good in Man through trust.
NRA. GOA. OFF.

SilenceDoGood

Being someone who doesn't drink and is in college for their fifth year I'd like to chime in:

I carry EVERYWHERE that is legally allowed; like yourself, I am usually the designated driver. Sometimes I'll take my friends to a place, and it does not take long before I know that it's time to leave. I simply tell my friends I'm gonna jam, and to call me when they need a ride. Somtimes we'll go to a party, and the "spidey" senses don't go off, so I hang out and drink my Tea/Juice. Developing your situational awareness is key.

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Siddhartha

Aside from the fact if you are legal or not use your head!!!! In Oregon you can legally carry in a bar or tavern, but here is the issue..... lets say you have to use your weapon in the establishment and you have been drinkin' soda all night, when and if you go to trial there will be one person that will say you have been drinkin' or they saw you drinking. The legal issues I can deal with, but the civil case scares me because that person who just tried to end your life has family and they have a lawyer!!!!

Bark'n

Interesting point.

I do not know if they will always draw a blood alcohol level on everyone who is in a defensive shooting. I would assume if you are in a shooting incident inside a place where alcohol is served or if the investigating officers suspect alcohol involvement, they probably will.

If they do, that evidence should certainly be sufficient to counter anyone merely saying that they saw you drinking in a criminal or civil proceeding. (Physical scientific evidence is going to trump someone's "lying eyes!")

Before I would demand that the police do an alcohol check for just that reason, I would however hold off until I had a chance to consult with my attorney. He may in fact demand that for you if the police have not already done one.

Just my opinion.

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-Bark'n
Semper Fi

"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, will prey on those of us who without one, would surely perish."

Rugergirl

I'm in MI as well, got my permit in March and seldom drink anymore.
As far as the bar carry/resteraunt carry laws we have have in MI and the confusion about them I either don't go or don't drink if I'm carrying in restaurants that serve alcohol. I miss the Margarita with the mexican food, but I can always mix one after I get home and lock up the gun. I very seldom ever do, though. Me personally I'd rather carry than have a drink, even at home.
Now as far as the party goes, sure, I'd carry and not drink if it is just a social group having a few cocktails, on the other hand if it's one of those drink-until-you-get-stupid kind of parties, I don't even bother to go. I try to avoid the instant butthole-just add alcohol types at all times. A lot of folks in the social group we used to hang out with were those types. I miss them, but if we do get together, I make sure it's in a non-drinking environment.
A little common sense goes a long way in knowing where and when to stay or go, if in doubt, I go.

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Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.

AZ Husker

I'm the designated shooter.

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MadMac

For Pete's sake, three quarters of the people here assume that if adults consume any type alcohol, they'll inevitably go bat-feces crazy and start fights, rip off clothing (), beat the spouse, or initiate felonious behavior.

I can enjoy wine at home with the missus, invite the neighbors over for drinks, or host a happy hour without any drama. I may see a friend or neighbor get tipsy, but we just make sure they don't drive home.

For me, my guns get locked up when the booze comes out, but that's my standard.

We even raised our kids with more of a European view toward alcohol consumption. By 17, they could have diluted wine with meals. I brewed beer in the house. By 18, they could have anything they they wanted as long as it was just family. They grew up fine and each drinks socially without crazy binge drinking or drunken behavior. They couldn't believe the high school kids who went nuts on weekends guzzling rot-gut.

ccw9mm

Hm. I would suggest most folks are a bit brighter than that. "Pete" ain't the idiot you take him for, I'd say.

I don't think most folks are worried in the least about what they, themselves, would do if having a glass of wine, or whatever. It's not about me or you, as upstanding folks simply looking to be left alone and not attacked. It's not about what we'd do if we drink a bit.

Rather, it's a simple matter of being able to retain one's judgment in the face of scores of folks at a place where drinking's involved, should anything ugly occur. And, at a place where scores of folks are drinking for hours, one simply cannot predict what can happen or whether the ugly, mean, ornery drunks might find us that night.

It's about the "rule of stupids" that has been suggested, more than anything.

I would just rather not have to meet such a person or group, when I've had one drink. And it's not about what I'd do. It's about what could be claimed against me and my judgment, should anything happen. It's about what a dead attacker's estate could claim against me, if it turns out the idiot tries to kill me based on his stark-raving problem with alcohol. Pass, on that.

__________________
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
Thoughts: Justifiable self defense.
Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
Deal with evil through strength. Affirm the good in Man through trust.
NRA. GOA. OFF.

MinistrMalic

If it's a private party, thanks for being the DD. Thanks for keeping you and them safe. And IMAO, it's no worries for carrying. You're being responsible.

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Rhino1965

Every year around this time I hear these questions arise because of the parties that will be coming up. I think the simple answer is know your surroundings. If it's a party with people loud trashed people I usually leave anyway. Last evening we were at a Treat or Treat party and I carried. The only people that knew were me, myself and I. There was a bit of drinking amoung others. The party was calm and collective so I was comfortable. Goes back to using common sense I think....

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"Rhino"