What about a National CCW option? - Page 3

tns0038 · November 2nd, 2009, 04:06 PM

Similar to our driver’s license, I’d like to see a nationally mandated CCL agreement

Just like driving laws, each state has their own, and the same can be said for firearms.

But I would like to see it mandated that states have to accept each other’s CCL.

It would mean that all states could stop issuing nonresident CCL. There would be no point since the state your traveling too, would be required to accept the one you have from your own state.

havegunjoe · November 2nd, 2009, 04:49 PM

I too, like others am nervous when the Fed gets involved. The program as you stated it sounds like it would work but I have a hard time believing the Fed would not want to eventually oversee the states. It would be a kind of foot in the door for them.

Stevew · November 2nd, 2009, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixsccw

First off, get the states all on the same page, and the feds can stay out of it. And getting all the states on the same page means breaking a few crybabies’ hearts -

The reciprocity bill was absurd, not in its intent but in its timing – until you get all the states even vaguely resembling one another in terms of gun laws, such a bill could never be made equitable. In NY, we’ve got some of the toughest gun laws anywhere – when one of us manages to obtain a CCW, it’s the gold standard. Why should I be OK with any old yahoo from Vermont waltzing into my state with a gun he bought in a hardware store, and no permit?

We need to make CCWs the weighty, valuable document they should be, and in all states.

First, all states become “Shall Issue”. HOWEVER – every applicant (even the yahoo from Vermont) must not only pass the NICS, but he must complete substantial training in concealed carry and deployment of the weapon as well as marksmanship. (How about the state police making some serious cash by offering that training at their facilities? Charge $500 bucks and watch the eager applicants line up from the state capital all the way to the border with their 5 Ben Franklins clutched in their fists, ready to rock.)
Further, all applicants must attend at least an 8 hour class covering the pertinent penal codes and specific articles of the code that deals with deadly force (the state codes, as I said, would have to be standardized). The applicants would have to demonstrate what they’ve learned by passing tests – written, dealing with the laws, and practical, dealing with real-time scenarios.

You pass, you deserve a CCW, and by God you earned it.

Just a side note - our Senator Schumer (whom I have no great love for, but anyway...) took major flack a short time ago for suggesting eye exams for permit holders. What the hell would be so bad about that? Why is it not OK to drive a car with impaired vision, but it’s OK for Mr. Magoo to have a CCW?
Tie it to your driver’s license – if you get spot checked by an officer while your carrying, he asks for TWO documents, your permit AND your driver’s license. If the driver’s license says “corrective lenses” you damn better have them on if your armed. Very easy.

Like I said, make all states Shall Issue, where everyone is eligible and has a reasonable shot at a CCW – but toughen the whole system up – make a CCW the gold standard it should be.

Six

I disagree. If the people from other states wanted their CCW requirements to be more like NY they would let their legislators know. If they didn't eventually get what they wanted, and felt very strongly about they have the option of moving to the state that has laws that they agree with. I am against control at national level. All states do not have the liscense requirement to operate a motor vehicle. I drive around states that do not have laws that allow me to carry in their state. I am happy to do so. I do not not vacation in states that will not allow me to carry. I would just about bet fear of losing tourist dollars comes into play with Florida's gun laws.

wmhawth · November 2nd, 2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixsccw

First off, get the states all on the same page, and the feds can stay out of it. And getting all the states on the same page means breaking a few crybabies’ hearts -

The reciprocity bill was absurd, not in its intent but in its timing – until you get all the states even vaguely resembling one another in terms of gun laws, such a bill could never be made equitable. In NY, we’ve got some of the toughest gun laws anywhere – when one of us manages to obtain a CCW, it’s the gold standard. Why should I be OK with any old yahoo from Vermont waltzing into my state with a gun he bought in a hardware store, and no permit?

We need to make CCWs the weighty, valuable document they should be, and in all states.

First, all states become “Shall Issue”. HOWEVER – every applicant (even the yahoo from Vermont) must not only pass the NICS, but he must complete substantial training in concealed carry and deployment of the weapon as well as marksmanship. (How about the state police making some serious cash by offering that training at their facilities? Charge $500 bucks and watch the eager applicants line up from the state capital all the way to the border with their 5 Ben Franklins clutched in their fists, ready to rock.)
Further, all applicants must attend at least an 8 hour class covering the pertinent penal codes and specific articles of the code that deals with deadly force (the state codes, as I said, would have to be standardized). The applicants would have to demonstrate what they’ve learned by passing tests – written, dealing with the laws, and practical, dealing with real-time scenarios.

You pass, you deserve a CCW, and by God you earned it.

Just a side note - our Senator Schumer (whom I have no great love for, but anyway...) took major flack a short time ago for suggesting eye exams for permit holders. What the hell would be so bad about that? Why is it not OK to drive a car with impaired vision, but it’s OK for Mr. Magoo to have a CCW?
Tie it to your driver’s license – if you get spot checked by an officer while your carrying, he asks for TWO documents, your permit AND your driver’s license. If the driver’s license says “corrective lenses” you damn better have them on if your armed. Very easy.

Like I said, make all states Shall Issue, where everyone is eligible and has a reasonable shot at a CCW – but toughen the whole system up – make a CCW the gold standard it should be.

Six

Sounds like a way for the Govt., either state or fed to control the numbers of permits issued either through cost or rigged testing requirements. If this were the case "Shall Issue" might as well be "May Issue". Sounds OK in theory but "the gold standard it should be". Might just turn out to be "permits mainly for the rich or connected". I want minimal government involvement in these matters.

kmbrcstm2 · November 2nd, 2009, 07:06 PM

No way.

No how.

Cold Warrior · November 2nd, 2009, 10:19 PM

Beware of that two-edge sword that can cut and gut your ox that gets gored: Gay Marriage may be great in weirdo states but we do not want it recognized in Ohio. National standard mandatory CCW laws can be changed by the deranged, so we will be alright with states rights and cooperation throughout the nation.

Dakota97 · November 2nd, 2009, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixsccw

First off, get the states all on the same page, and the feds can stay out of it. And getting all the states on the same page means breaking a few crybabies’ hearts -

The reciprocity bill was absurd, not in its intent but in its timing – until you get all the states even vaguely resembling one another in terms of gun laws, such a bill could never be made equitable. In NY, we’ve got some of the toughest gun laws anywhere – when one of us manages to obtain a CCW, it’s the gold standard. Why should I be OK with any old yahoo from Vermont waltzing into my state with a gun he bought in a hardware store, and no permit?

We need to make CCWs the weighty, valuable document they should be, and in all states.

First, all states become “Shall Issue”. HOWEVER – every applicant (even the yahoo from Vermont) must not only pass the NICS, but he must complete substantial training in concealed carry and deployment of the weapon as well as marksmanship. (How about the state police making some serious cash by offering that training at their facilities? Charge $500 bucks and watch the eager applicants line up from the state capital all the way to the border with their 5 Ben Franklins clutched in their fists, ready to rock.)
Further, all applicants must attend at least an 8 hour class covering the pertinent penal codes and specific articles of the code that deals with deadly force (the state codes, as I said, would have to be standardized). The applicants would have to demonstrate what they’ve learned by passing tests – written, dealing with the laws, and practical, dealing with real-time scenarios.

You pass, you deserve a CCW, and by God you earned it.

Just a side note - our Senator Schumer (whom I have no great love for, but anyway...) took major flack a short time ago for suggesting eye exams for permit holders. What the hell would be so bad about that? Why is it not OK to drive a car with impaired vision, but it’s OK for Mr. Magoo to have a CCW?
Tie it to your driver’s license – if you get spot checked by an officer while your carrying, he asks for TWO documents, your permit AND your driver’s license. If the driver’s license says “corrective lenses” you damn better have them on if your armed. Very easy.

Like I said, make all states Shall Issue, where everyone is eligible and has a reasonable shot at a CCW – but toughen the whole system up – make a CCW the gold standard it should be.

Six

Guess I missed the part of the 2nd amendment about the mandatory training and the eye exam. What about the family that can't afford $500 but wants to protect themselves?

Majorlk · November 2nd, 2009, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixsccw

First off, get the states all on the same page, and the feds can stay out of it. And getting all the states on the same page means breaking a few crybabies’ hearts -

The reciprocity bill was absurd, not in its intent but in its timing – until you get all the states even vaguely resembling one another in terms of gun laws, such a bill could never be made equitable. In NY, we’ve got some of the toughest gun laws anywhere – when one of us manages to obtain a CCW, it’s the gold standard. Why should I be OK with any old yahoo from Vermont waltzing into my state with a gun he bought in a hardware store, and no permit?

We need to make CCWs the weighty, valuable document they should be, and in all states.

First, all states become “Shall Issue”. HOWEVER – every applicant (even the yahoo from Vermont) must not only pass the NICS, but he must complete substantial training in concealed carry and deployment of the weapon as well as marksmanship. (How about the state police making some serious cash by offering that training at their facilities? Charge $500 bucks and watch the eager applicants line up from the state capital all the way to the border with their 5 Ben Franklins clutched in their fists, ready to rock.)
Further, all applicants must attend at least an 8 hour class covering the pertinent penal codes and specific articles of the code that deals with deadly force (the state codes, as I said, would have to be standardized). The applicants would have to demonstrate what they’ve learned by passing tests – written, dealing with the laws, and practical, dealing with real-time scenarios.

You pass, you deserve a CCW, and by God you earned it.

Just a side note - our Senator Schumer (whom I have no great love for, but anyway...) took major flack a short time ago for suggesting eye exams for permit holders. What the hell would be so bad about that? Why is it not OK to drive a car with impaired vision, but it’s OK for Mr. Magoo to have a CCW?
Tie it to your driver’s license – if you get spot checked by an officer while your carrying, he asks for TWO documents, your permit AND your driver’s license. If the driver’s license says “corrective lenses” you damn better have them on if your armed. Very easy.

Like I said, make all states Shall Issue, where everyone is eligible and has a reasonable shot at a CCW – but toughen the whole system up – make a CCW the gold standard it should be.

Six

You'd make a great spokesman for the anti movement.

SpringerXD · November 2nd, 2009, 11:18 PM

This idea is a double-edged sword and here's why. On the one hand, from the perspective of us here, it would be outstanding. One permit, good anywhere in the USA, no questions asked.

The fundamental problem is that such an idea infringes on states' rights, i.e.... we're no longer the United States of America; we're now a consolidated federal monarchy, which is exactly what the Founding Fathers wanted to prevent.

Now, if Texas, Alabama, or Tennessee make the rules, that would suit me just fine. But what if California or Massachusetts make the rules? Then we're screwed.

See what I mean?

Individual states' rights are an important part of the system of checks and balances within our free republic and it's a slippery slope to ever tamper with that.

GM · November 2nd, 2009, 11:53 PM

No thank you!

November 2nd, 2009, 04:49 PM	#22
havegunjoe VIP Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,027	I too, like others am nervous when the Fed gets involved. The program as you stated it sounds like it would work but I have a hard time believing the Fed would not want to eventually oversee the states. It would be a kind of foot in the door for them. __________________ DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONTESTING THE VOTE. Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Insrtuctor Utah Permit Certified Instructor

November 2nd, 2009, 07:06 PM	#25
kmbrcstm2 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Washington Posts: 96	No way. No how. __________________ CZ 75 B DPMS AR 15 CZ 453 American

November 2nd, 2009, 11:18 PM	#29
SpringerXD Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southeast Posts: 634	This idea is a double-edged sword and here's why. On the one hand, from the perspective of us here, it would be outstanding. One permit, good anywhere in the USA, no questions asked. The fundamental problem is that such an idea infringes on states' rights, i.e.... we're no longer the United States of America; we're now a consolidated federal monarchy, which is exactly what the Founding Fathers wanted to prevent. Now, if Texas, Alabama, or Tennessee make the rules, that would suit me just fine. But what if California or Massachusetts make the rules? Then we're screwed. See what I mean? Individual states' rights are an important part of the system of checks and balances within our free republic and it's a slippery slope to ever tamper with that. __________________ "I practice the ancient art of Klik Pao." -miklcolt45

November 2nd, 2009, 11:53 PM	#30
GM Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: USA Posts: 102	No thank you! __________________ *"The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"*

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November 2nd, 2009, 04:06 PM	#21
tns0038 Distinguished Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,931	Similar to our driver’s license, I’d like to see a nationally mandated CCL agreement Just like driving laws, each state has their own, and the same can be said for firearms. But I would like to see it mandated that states have to accept each other’s CCL. It would mean that all states could stop issuing nonresident CCL. There would be no point since the state your traveling too, would be required to accept the one you have from your own state.

November 2nd, 2009, 10:19 PM	#26
Cold Warrior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: West Carrollton, Ohio Posts: 151	Beware of that two-edge sword that can cut and gut your ox that gets gored: Gay Marriage may be great in weirdo states but we do not want it recognized in Ohio. National standard mandatory CCW laws can be changed by the deranged, so we will be alright with states rights and cooperation throughout the nation.