grifft

I left Florida The other day to go to N.C. and got about half way and got stopped for speeding (not me). When the trooper approached my vehicle I had both hands on the wheel and advised him I was carrying and he asked if I had a license. Then told me slowly to get out of my vehicle while his hand was on his weapon which I understood perfectly. He then told me to put my hands on the hood while he removed my weapon still has not ask for my license. I was still Ok with it. Then he ask for my license both driving and CCW. He then said for his protection cuffed me and put me in his car. Know at this time beginning to worry. I was a former police officer. He checked my record and then said that the Florida license were no good in S.C. I said that S.C. was a reciprocal state and he said that if they are he does not know it. I told him I had something in my wallet that could prove it. I printed out a page from the internet a while back that showed the states that were. He read it and told me he was sorry and to be on my way with no ticket. He was doing his job and in my book did what he should have done. Glad I printed it out to keep. Laws from different states can get really confusing because I have been in those situations before. I followed his request did not give him any trouble and that is the way to act in those situations.

BlueNinjaGo

I personally think LEO's should know what other states in their region recognize each other's CHLs. I mean, SC isn't that far from FL. It's not like you were from Alaska, Oregon, Kansas, Delaware.... etc etc....

Sounds pretty excessive to me.

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RoadRunner71

grifft,

Glad everything turned out alright for you.

Question for the LEO's. Is it common practice in this type of situation to handcuff some one? I can understand putting them in the cruiser, but torestrain the individual without any other reason that a possible traffic violation seems extreme. I understand they all intend to go home at the end of the shift, but if they have already taken the weapon, where is the immediate danger? I'm not criticizing, just looking for a little education here.

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LM2024

Looks like a textbook stop to me. The laws concerning reciprocity are always changing. Of course CCWers would know it, because it's the one law that they are concerned about when carrying.

JoJoGunn

Sounds like a letter or call to his Chief is in order and send the trooper back to school to learn the laws. If they are to enforce law, they need to know the law. He wasn't "doing his job" as you state.

His ignorance of law is no excuse, sounds like poor training to me. He shouldn't have cuffed you and placed you into his car as if you were some common criminal either. I wouldn't let him not giving a ticket influence a decision to call his Superior's and report him.

What if this "fool" decided that you were a gun-toting menace and decided to draw his own weapon and potentially shoot you, even after you have informed him of the weapon? This just isn't good all around.

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BlueNinjaGo

Really? I think there's more than that... Heck, where and where you can't carry in your own state can get pretty complicated at times... Not to mention other states if you're traveling.

What about deadly force laws? How about if your state has a "duty to retreat", a "castle doctrine", "must inform LEO" law...

All citizens are supposed to know the law, are we not? Ignorance of the law is no excuse. So not only should LEO's know the law because it's their job, but they're also citizens.

Now we can't expect LEO's or Citizens to know every law, but some biggies are necessary. Like what nearby states licenses are honored by your state.

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Divebum47

While you make some fairly good points, look at it from the LEO's perspective.

1) He has to know as many laws and about as much about the law as a lawyer. Problem is, he has to make split second decisions based upon that knowledge, and does not have the luxury of a law library and plenty of time.

2) Most LEO's deal with the dregs of society on a regular basis. Just because you consider yourself one of the good guys doesn't mean the LEO can ascertain that on first glance.

3) He wants to go home at night. If it means a little discomfort and inconvenience on the part of the citizen then maybe that's little enough to ask for executing a dangerous and thankless job.

4) It's easy to be an armchair cop when you aren't wearing his moccasins.

5) If you ("you" being used collectively) don't want to be inconvenienced, don't break the law.

6) Seems to me the OP has the right attitude.

I'm not a LEO, never have been one, don't play one on TV or in the movies. I'm too much of a wuss to put up with the kind of crap these guys put up with. I did, however, spend a lot of time working with Police Agencies all over North America. Before I retired, I worked for a mobile computing company which specialized in Public Safety. I have a very small idea of what the average LEO goes through on a normal day. It's real easy to say what should be when you have the luxury of not having to make the decisions or live by the decisions you make.

YMMV, Void where prohibited, the preceding does not necessarily reflect the opinion of the management.

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basher052

A decent argument, and we dont know all the facts of the stop (ie, was the officer looking for the OP's type and color of vehicle from a previous crime, etc), but once he has told the officer he is carrying, it would make sense, in this day and age, to ask for his CHL. Police officers by and large are extremly adept at spoting trouble based on body language, inflection in the voice, ect. From what we are told, I think the detention was a tad excessive for the situation....IMHO, YMMV.

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Andy

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GM

I can imagine that the LEOs do not know all laws concerning reciprocity all over the US, but I think that SC is close enough to justify the fact that he should know it; he should know the reciprocity laws from all nearby states.

I perfectly understand that LEOs must be very careful because they have to deal with a lot of idiots that are only waiting for a chance to shoot, but I believe that what he did was not right. He already had taken your weapon, then why were you put in handcuffs?
I do not like to make problems for anyone, and above all I do not like to make problems for people whose jobs are to make the streets safe, but in this case I should call his superior's and report him.

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Deanimator

The LEO's "perspective" is utterly irrelevant. The only thing that's relevant is the law.

EVERYBODY has to know the law. If you violate it, not knowing it isn't an excuse.

It's the LEO's JOB to know the law. The idea that he has LESS of a duty to know the law than any citizen is simply absurd.

If there are "too many" laws for the cop to know, there are too many for YOU to know. Think that cop or any court would buy that excuse? I didn't think so.

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