No CC on Military Base; Example Fort Hood - Page 4

Sportsterguy · November 6th, 2009, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotGuns

I always found it ironic that a military man might be required to kill an enemy with a tank,aircraft,submarine,button on a computer, or any kind of weapon designed to kill people, yet they couldnt be trusted with personal firearms on their own base.

Something is wrong with that picture.

You've got that right. I'm retired CG and now work on a CG base as a civilian instructor. The base police/nazi's have regular gate searches and will search your auto if you are pulled for a violation over 80% of the time. They actually tried to confiscate my ASP till I pulled out the base instruction with a list of prohibitted items.

In their defense one contractor threatened to kill another civil service employee a couple years back. His truck was searched and they found a fully loaded Glock in his truck.

I'd love to be able to pack my Snub 19 if someone goes off the deep end!

I sadly believe you are going to see many, many more of our military members snapping. In Vietnam you did your year and were done. Some of our guys are on 5+ deployments and seeing horrible sights. My good friend just left for his 4th tour (Army) and he is not the same Kevin he used to be.

retsupt99 · November 6th, 2009, 07:22 PM

Now that any terrorist reading public forums is sure about how our bases work, I'm sure that we can expect more attacks.
What does the government have planned next, no guns allowed in police stations?

skot · November 6th, 2009, 07:22 PM

I have to admit that as a civilian with no military experience I always just assumed that our Armed Forces were always armed. I really think that most civilians think (or thought) that. Trouble is now everyone knows they aren't.

It wasn't until a couple years ago when my work hired a vet and we got talking that I learned that they almost never carry. I remember thinking that was so odd. I asked him what would happen if the base was attcked and he said "well there are guns in the armory".

This whole situation is very sad.

Herknav · November 6th, 2009, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agentmel

If you are that worried about your personal safety and the likelihood of being shot at... DON'T JOIN THE MILITARY!!

My only complaint (and, I think, the complaint of most here) is when I'm not allowed to shoot back (as the victims weren't). That's a lot different than going to war for your country.

Herk

BudMan5 · November 6th, 2009, 09:12 PM

I was amused by many of them, not so amused by others.

Every military post, base or installation has all kinds of weapons on it. All are secured except when training because there are absolutely no reason to have them in the hands of individual soldiers.

Stop and think when the last time an incident like this happened on a military or naval installation. You can't because it hasn't happened before. the reason that it has happened is because military or naval personnel are bound together by discipline and singular concept of duty. This has not happened before because military or naval installations are isolated from the outside "chaotic" order that is inherent in civilian communities by discipline and order.

It would appear to me that most of you have little or no experience concerning the military other than watching TV or in movies.

As far as military personnel not being armed, (and I include National Guard convoys) you would be nuts if you thought there weren't a half dozen or more loaded M16/M4 magazines scattered throughouty the convoy. Every training mission I was ever on I had a loaded pistol or rifle magazine tucked away and I wasn't the only one.

In 1990, while preparing for deployment to Iraq, I was in the 3rd Battalion 75th Ranger compound at Fort benning GA. Someone yelled out in the barracks, "deer in the parking lot!" and every window open up and small arms fire erupted from personaly held pistols, shotguns and rifles.

As far as serving one year tours in Vietnam and the troops having to serve four and five, you're comparing apples and oranges.

I served in Vietnam beginning in January 1966. At the end of my first year, 6,143 Americans died in Vietnam. Now I stayed until September 1968. During that time, another 27,453 Americans died. 58,000 died between 1961 and 1998. (By the way they are still dying from injuries received and I am not including Agent Orange deaths.)

I was not the only one who stayed for more than one tour and the main reason I stayed was because I knew with my MOS (helicopter crew chief) that I would be coming right back after a one year tour in Conus and I wanted to stay with the unit I was in.

These folks come home with their units. We came home individually with absolutely no peer support. We came home and were booed, spit upon and jeered. I couldn't even admit to having served in Vietnam until the early eighties because so many people hated us.

These folks come home with their units, they have peer support. They are cheered in airports, have parades thrown for them and are idolized by the American citizens.

Ask a VN vet about his home coming.

Most of you have no knowledge, and no experience and therefore no standing if you want to criticize the military.

There are no reasons for individual military folks to be armed on base.

The place they need to be armed is off base.

Fights on, start flaming. But then, I have heard all that before and I got used to it.

digitalexplr · November 6th, 2009, 09:16 PM

The post I was station at in the D.C. area back in the day, was a highly classified installation. You had to have a Top Secret clearance to be cook. The MP's were the only folks on base armed, and they were not allowed to have a magazine in their 1911's. They had loaded mags, just not inserted in their .45's. And this was during the Vietnam War days.

Pretty sad when our War Fighters come home and are immediately disarmed and left as the rest of the sheep.

skot · November 6th, 2009, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BudMan5

Stop and think when the last time an incident like this happened on a military or naval installation. You can't because it hasn't happened before. the reason that it has happened is because military or naval personnel are bound together by discipline and singular concept of duty. This has not happened before because military or naval installations are isolated from the outside "chaotic" order that is inherent in civilian communities by discipline and order.

March 23, 2003, but that's just the first to come to mind. I'm sure if one were to research it they could possibly find more.

I respect your service Bud, but times have changed.

basher052 · November 6th, 2009, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Most of you have no knowledge, and no experience and therefore no standing if you want to criticize the military

Oh I dont know...sounds like most of the people on here have some idea.

This is the same as "you arent (your race here) so you dont understand" argument. It holds no water either.

And for the record, I didnt see a lot of criticism of the military, just a concern for the lack of armed personel on base. I think things have changed a bit from the 60's to the 2000's.

Just one mans opinion.....

Herknav · November 6th, 2009, 10:06 PM

Bud,

I was 2 when Saigon fell, so I didn't have a lot to do with Vietnam. I serve today for my own reasons. I have done nothing heroic and have asked for nothing in return from the American people other than what they promised me when I signed up.

How about you take out your frustrations on those that wronged you instead of those serving today?

Herk

PS -- Thanks for your service. Many forget it wasn't an all-volunteer force back then.

Holger · November 6th, 2009, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gibber

It is a matter of fact that most of the military elite leaders are golfers and not gunners.

What do you mean? Most senior leaders, both enlisted and officer, were operators at some point. Are you implying somehow they know nothing about trigger-pulling?

Full disclosure: I'm an O-4 on track to one of those "golfers" as you put it.

November 6th, 2009, 07:22 PM	#32
retsupt99 VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Central Florida Posts: 22,749	Now that any terrorist reading public forums is sure about how our bases work, I'm sure that we can expect more attacks. What does the government have planned next, no guns allowed in police stations? __________________ "That I cannot do." "Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks." *********************************** NRA Life Member

November 6th, 2009, 09:12 PM	#35
BudMan5 New Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: north central Illinois Posts: 7	I've read all of your comments I was amused by many of them, not so amused by others. Every military post, base or installation has all kinds of weapons on it. All are secured except when training because there are absolutely no reason to have them in the hands of individual soldiers. Stop and think when the last time an incident like this happened on a military or naval installation. You can't because it hasn't happened before. the reason that it has happened is because military or naval personnel are bound together by discipline and singular concept of duty. This has not happened before because military or naval installations are isolated from the outside "chaotic" order that is inherent in civilian communities by discipline and order. It would appear to me that most of you have little or no experience concerning the military other than watching TV or in movies. As far as military personnel not being armed, (and I include National Guard convoys) you would be nuts if you thought there weren't a half dozen or more loaded M16/M4 magazines scattered throughouty the convoy. Every training mission I was ever on I had a loaded pistol or rifle magazine tucked away and I wasn't the only one. In 1990, while preparing for deployment to Iraq, I was in the 3rd Battalion 75th Ranger compound at Fort benning GA. Someone yelled out in the barracks, "deer in the parking lot!" and every window open up and small arms fire erupted from personaly held pistols, shotguns and rifles. As far as serving one year tours in Vietnam and the troops having to serve four and five, you're comparing apples and oranges. I served in Vietnam beginning in January 1966. At the end of my first year, 6,143 Americans died in Vietnam. Now I stayed until September 1968. During that time, another 27,453 Americans died. 58,000 died between 1961 and 1998. (By the way they are still dying from injuries received and I am not including Agent Orange deaths.) I was not the only one who stayed for more than one tour and the main reason I stayed was because I knew with my MOS (helicopter crew chief) that I would be coming right back after a one year tour in Conus and I wanted to stay with the unit I was in. These folks come home with their units. We came home individually with absolutely no peer support. We came home and were booed, spit upon and jeered. I couldn't even admit to having served in Vietnam until the early eighties because so many people hated us. These folks come home with their units, they have peer support. They are cheered in airports, have parades thrown for them and are idolized by the American citizens. Ask a VN vet about his home coming. Most of you have no knowledge, and no experience and therefore no standing if you want to criticize the military. There are no reasons for individual military folks to be armed on base. The place they need to be armed is off base. Fights on, start flaming. But then, I have heard all that before and I got used to it. __________________ Bud When the cute TV reporter asked the Texas Ranger why he shot the bank robber six times with his.45, he replied, ""Cause they don't make a .50" Last edited by BudMan5; November 6th, 2009 at 09:15 PM.. Reason: spelling

November 6th, 2009, 09:16 PM	#36
digitalexplr Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Jefferson City, MO Posts: 655	The post I was station at in the D.C. area back in the day, was a highly classified installation. You had to have a Top Secret clearance to be cook. The MP's were the only folks on base armed, and they were not allowed to have a magazine in their 1911's. They had loaded mags, just not inserted in their .45's. And this was during the Vietnam War days. Pretty sad when our War Fighters come home and are immediately disarmed and left as the rest of the sheep. __________________ XD9sc XD40 Service Mossberg 590a1 NRA Life Member

November 6th, 2009, 10:06 PM	#39
Herknav Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Waypoint 0 Posts: 628	Bud, I was 2 when Saigon fell, so I didn't have a lot to do with Vietnam. I serve today for my own reasons. I have done nothing heroic and have asked for nothing in return from the American people other than what they promised me when I signed up. How about you take out your frustrations on those that wronged you instead of those serving today? Herk PS -- Thanks for your service. Many forget it wasn't an all-volunteer force back then. __________________ I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth.--Steve McQueen

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November 6th, 2009, 07:22 PM	#33
skot Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 147	I have to admit that as a civilian with no military experience I always just assumed that our Armed Forces were always armed. I really think that most civilians think (or thought) that. Trouble is now everyone knows they aren't. It wasn't until a couple years ago when my work hired a vet and we got talking that I learned that they almost never carry. I remember thinking that was so odd. I asked him what would happen if the base was attcked and he said "well there are guns in the armory". This whole situation is very sad.