ArmyCop

After watching news about what happened at Fort Hood a friend of mine called asking “How in the WORLD can someone get away with shooting SO MANY people on a military installation?”.

My friend (no military background) is like a lot of folks in thinking on an Army Post or other Military Installation – EVERYBODY HAS A GUN.

Reality is far from that.

Pull out a map of either Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi or Florida – randomly pick any rural neighborhood and they will be better armed than any military installation.

On any military installation (In the US) – the only armed people are the MP’s and they are only carrying a 9mm Beretta. Some soldiers may be armed at the firing range but that’s about it.

If you see a convoy of hummers on the road in the US – National Guard or other – you might think “Someone would be crazy to attack THEM” but even if they are going to the firing range – NO ONE’S ARMED! You drive to the range – They issue the firearms – you shoot \ qualify – TURN THEM BACK IN and drive back unarmed again.

That’s just the way it is. No off duty CC on base. Even the MP’s go to work unarmed – check out their weapon – do their shift – turn the weapon back in and go home…

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Matthew 6 Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you.

Gibber

You are correct. Another shooting in another "gun free" zone.
It is a matter of fact that most of the military elite leaders are golfers and not gunners. They set the policy and it is going to get worse would be my hunch. Rumor for several years has been that soon, military will be forbidden from owning firearms.
Also, I thought that military people were taught to get out of the target zone yet, this guy was able to shoot for quite sometime and run up a body count similar to a basketball score.

Prayers to the families.

Jeep1

I understand what you are saying , and I know it is true. I have two sons in the army. One in SanAntonio and the other in Afganestain.But I think it is better if the sheep out there think all military personal ARE ARMED. It will keep nut jobs from trying something.

HotGuns

Most military bases are target rich environments, not much different than a school or a church.

They are picked for one reason....shock value.

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AR. CHL Instr.

To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. Thomas Jefferson

Paco

I understand the reason the military operates their bases this way, sort of. I also understand the right of each American to be a gun owner if they want to.

My question is this, if there had been other armed Soldiers at Ft. Hood (CCW or standard issue), how much more damage would have been done? I mean it was a Soldier who opened fire, so if the LEO that responded first walked in and saw many Soldiers with weapons drawn would she have been able to determine the cause of the shooting and take appropriate action?

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"Don't hit at all if you can help it; don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

If you are not willing to stand behind our Troops, feel free to stand in front of them!

-Paco

Treo

Every Unit I've ever been in has had at least one armed guard every time our weapons left post.

If there were that many armed soldiers the event would have been over before the Cops got there.

When I was in the Army commanders were held responsible for the actions of the troops under them. IOW if a soldier on leave in Texas was driving back to Ft. Carson and fell asleep at the wheel in New Mexico and died, his company commander was investigated to make sure that the commander had done every thing he could to ensure that this wouldn’t happen. (FWIW the above incident actually happened while I was on Ft. Carson.)

Therefore, in order to protect their careers, the chain of command becomes a nanny state. They check the fluid levels, the tire tread and the general roadworthiness of your privately owned vehicle before a long weekend. The hold a formation every Friday night and tell you not to get drunk, drink and drive or have unprotected sex. And they simply don’t allow anyone unrestricted access to firearms.

goldshellback

I've got 17 years AD (Navy) and I've worked with Security (patrols) more than a few times on shore duty......albit limited, I'm a Submariner....and ArmyCop is correct WRT Base/Instalation security. That's how we (Navy) do it. No gun on base (a FEW exceptions....but NO CARRY) unless in a specific duty status.

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"Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet........CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, as quoted on Fox & Friends, July 7th, 2008

HotGuns

I always found it ironic that a military man might be required to kill an enemy with a tank,aircraft,submarine,button on a computer, or any kind of weapon designed to kill people, yet they couldnt be trusted with personal firearms on their own base.

Something is wrong with that picture.

__________________
AR. CHL Instr.

To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. Thomas Jefferson

LM2024

This has been Federal Law for years unfortunately. Why? I don't know, it makes no sense to me.

We would get ready to play war games during the Operational Readiness Inspections (ORIs) hre in the CONUS, and the scenario would be terrorists attacking the base. Okay, the problem is, the only thing we could do is report the positions of the attackers to Security Forces. And if they attacked us, all we could do is take cover because we have no frakking guns. The only personnel that are armed are security forces. An Air Base or Air Force Base is definitely a target rich environment.

Even in the AOR we aren't armed except for some locations downrange. If you're uprange in one of the bases in neighboring countries, it's the same damn thing: Only security forces are armed.

As a radio operator on active duty in the USAF, not assigned to a mobility or security forces squadron/group, the only time I ever got to hold a weapon in 23 years, was during M-16 qualifications.

Even during 9-11 when all bases were in Force Protection Condition Delta, only security forces were armed. That just plain sucks.

AdoptedTexan

Very good insight into actual practices and procedures. So how do you think Hasan got the guns into the base? Just smuggle them in his car? He'd have to have used concealment to get into the building where he did the shooting, or someone would notice the obvious fact that this guy's packing. And I believe he must have carried spare clips, given the number of wounded, unless some were hit by the same round. But on the positive side, the female LEO who stopped Hasan is going to make it. Her picture on Twitter looks like she's young and not very big, but she sure did her job well. We grow 'em tough in Texas!

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