Is there a threat of non training?

Euclidean · February 14th, 2005, 01:57 AM

APachon's thread on reputable training sites has made me think of something I encountered several months ago.

I will not say exactly when or where, and I cannot recall the exact name of the instituition beyond the fact it had "Central Texas" in the name.

Now it's common for the local boys who aren't the Gunsites and Thunder Ranches we all know about to rent out a booth at a gun show and give you a free quick pointer (Basically a 5 minute class), talk some bull with ya, and give you a business card and send you on your way hoping you'll call them and spend some money. I think most of these people are probably capable of teaching me a thing or five.

I met up with this outfit and the first thing I saw on their table was what looked like police badges. I looked at one closely. It was a 6 pointed star with the words "Concealed Carry Hero" displayed on it. I kid you not.

Now that right there was a sign to get the hell away from these guys, but it's like a train wreck. You don't want to stare but you can't look away.

Their "Faculty" consisted of three guys who could have passed as my grandfather's poker buddies wearing black BDUs with official looking name tags sewn on and the whole shooting match (pardon the pun). Oh and they were all wearing their Concealed Carry Hero badges too. One of them was holding a blue plastic training pistol and talking to someone. The only trouble is he was holding it in a way I've never seen before. His shooting hand was set correctly, but his other hand, well it was like he laid it flat, palm up, and then wrapped it around his other hand. What kind of grip that is I don't know.

On top of that he had the training pistol pointed thoughtlessly at a large crowd of people. That might be forgivable if he was just showing him some kind of drill for just a split second because come on, it is just a piece of plastic that everyone at that show could recognize as a trainer, but he held it there for five minutes. Oh, and his finger would have been on the trigger if the training pistol had posessed one.

Another one of these guys was talking about how to do a tactical reload in the middle of a bank robbery.

I couldn't take it any more. These guys were idiots. They had attracted a lot of attention too. Thankfully no one was buying one of those moronic badges.

I sorely pity any soul who took any lessons from them. I hope to God they're out of business. That's all we need is for ABC news to put these guys on TV so they can say:

"Yep we like to train ordinary citizens to try to stop crimes and encourage vigilantism in general. We also think it's okay to point a gun at a large crowd of people with your finger on the trigger like our Concealed Carry Heroine, Senator Feinstein. She gets a special 7 point star. We also sell Dark Ops tactical folders, perfect for concealed carry deanimation activities."

Now these guys were pretty obvious in their incompetence to anyone with even the most basic knowledge of firearms. A Boy Scout could have spotted these guys were full of crap. But a complete newbie, would they be able to tell? That's what scares me about stuff like this.

It also makes me wonder if I could be just as easily duped. I'm not a qualified firearms instructor at all. There are many and I mean many people who know far more than I do. I promise you anyone that can hit golf balls at 200 feet and has been to a number of these clinics at these good schools could embarass me. Could I get taken?

Any similar experiences out there? I hope not. I know the martial arts world is full of strip mall McDojos. I hope the gun world is not the same way.

acparmed · February 14th, 2005, 03:34 AM

I'm afraid Euclidean that there are disreputable people in all walks of life including ours. Thankfully however, in my experience, they are rare.
My advice is this; you belong to a forum that has some very good people in it with many years of experience to draw from. Don't take any course or pay anyone money without first posting them here complete with the names of their so-called instructors. I can state without reservation that one or more of us know the names (if not personally know) most of the reputable schools and instructors in the US. If we don't know them we can certainly find someone who does, (I'm a whiz at research)
I hope this helps.

Bud White · February 14th, 2005, 08:53 AM

We have soem of them at the gun shows to i walk right on by never even stop to look would be too tempted to make fun of them

Bumper · February 14th, 2005, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acparmed

I can state without reservation that one or more of us know the names (if not personally know) most of the reputable schools and instructors in the US. If we don't know them we can certainly find someone who does, (I'm a whiz at research)
I hope this helps.

I agree with, acparmed, post it here and someone will have heard of them or we will help you do the research to find out. I have probably never seen the particular guys you were speaking of, but have seen some just like them. The nice thing is all the badges on the table identify them as someone you should avoid. And it sounds like you did just that. Actually, that's a pretty good use for those badges; when you see one, run the other way......

David Armstrong · February 14th, 2005, 12:50 PM

A rather touchy issue, and one that is full of potential for problems. Some trainers/schools have very loyal followings but are frowned upon by others. Sort of depends on what you are interested in. One of the more popular instructors out there gets a lot of people coming to his courses, but is roundly condemned by most quality instructors. He tends to appeal to a lot of Rambo-wannabees ("Come take the newest Anti-Terrorist Personal Interdiction Program and learn to single-handedly defeat 10 machinegun-armed tangoes with just your handy dandy super ninja tactical kniife/blowgun/sniper rifle combo!") and those that don't know much better, but those wannabees will rant and rave about how good an instructor he is. And sometimes when dealing with larger sites the issue becomes one of luck, as in which instructor is on call this course? My personal suggestion is to avoid the obvious flakes, such as those you described, but also be aware that some of the reputable schools aren't always that reputable.

QKShooter · February 14th, 2005, 01:45 PM

Five SOLID minutes of uninterrupted HIGHLY INTENSIVE training with a BlueGun ~ A tad bit of additional money spent on the exact proper shade of nicely fitting BDUs ~ and "topped off" with a well earned (hopefully brightly chrome plated) "CCHero" Badge...What's The problem:questionm

"Their "Faculty" consisted of three guys who could have passed as my grandfather's poker buddies..."

Was it these three guys?

February 14th, 2005, 01:57 AM	#1
Euclidean VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 3,213	Is there a threat of non training? APachon's thread on reputable training sites has made me think of something I encountered several months ago. I will not say exactly when or where, and I cannot recall the exact name of the instituition beyond the fact it had "Central Texas" in the name. Now it's common for the local boys who aren't the Gunsites and Thunder Ranches we all know about to rent out a booth at a gun show and give you a free quick pointer (Basically a 5 minute class), talk some bull with ya, and give you a business card and send you on your way hoping you'll call them and spend some money. I think most of these people are probably capable of teaching me a thing or five. I met up with this outfit and the first thing I saw on their table was what looked like police badges. I looked at one closely. It was a 6 pointed star with the words "Concealed Carry Hero" displayed on it. I kid you not. Now that right there was a sign to get the hell away from these guys, but it's like a train wreck. You don't want to stare but you can't look away. Their "Faculty" consisted of three guys who could have passed as my grandfather's poker buddies wearing black BDUs with official looking name tags sewn on and the whole shooting match (pardon the pun). Oh and they were all wearing their Concealed Carry Hero badges too. One of them was holding a blue plastic training pistol and talking to someone. The only trouble is he was holding it in a way I've never seen before. His shooting hand was set correctly, but his other hand, well it was like he laid it flat, palm up, and then wrapped it around his other hand. What kind of grip that is I don't know. On top of that he had the training pistol pointed thoughtlessly at a large crowd of people. That might be forgivable if he was just showing him some kind of drill for just a split second because come on, it is just a piece of plastic that everyone at that show could recognize as a trainer, but he held it there for five minutes. Oh, and his finger would have been on the trigger if the training pistol had posessed one. Another one of these guys was talking about how to do a tactical reload in the middle of a bank robbery. I couldn't take it any more. These guys were idiots. They had attracted a lot of attention too. Thankfully no one was buying one of those moronic badges. I sorely pity any soul who took any lessons from them. I hope to God they're out of business. That's all we need is for ABC news to put these guys on TV so they can say: "Yep we like to train ordinary citizens to try to stop crimes and encourage vigilantism in general. We also think it's okay to point a gun at a large crowd of people with your finger on the trigger like our Concealed Carry Heroine, Senator Feinstein. She gets a special 7 point star. We also sell Dark Ops tactical folders, perfect for concealed carry deanimation activities." Now these guys were pretty obvious in their incompetence to anyone with even the most basic knowledge of firearms. A Boy Scout could have spotted these guys were full of crap. But a complete newbie, would they be able to tell? That's what scares me about stuff like this. It also makes me wonder if I could be just as easily duped. I'm not a qualified firearms instructor at all. There are many and I mean many people who know far more than I do. I promise you anyone that can hit golf balls at 200 feet and has been to a number of these clinics at these good schools could embarass me. Could I get taken? Any similar experiences out there? I hope not. I know the martial arts world is full of strip mall McDojos. I hope the gun world is not the same way. __________________ I am The Armed Educator. Last edited by Euclidean; February 14th, 2005 at 02:01 AM.

February 14th, 2005, 03:34 AM	#2
acparmed 1952 - 2006 Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada Posts: 1,371	I'm afraid Euclidean that there are disreputable people in all walks of life including ours. Thankfully however, in my experience, they are rare. My advice is this; you belong to a forum that has some very good people in it with many years of experience to draw from. Don't take any course or pay anyone money without first posting them here complete with the names of their so-called instructors. I can state without reservation that one or more of us know the names (if not personally know) most of the reputable schools and instructors in the US. If we don't know them we can certainly find someone who does, (I'm a whiz at research) I hope this helps. __________________ Heroes are people who do what has to be done, when it has to be done, regardless of the consequences "I like when the enemy shoots at me; then I know where the ****** are and can kill them." ~George Patton DE OPPRESSO LIBER**

February 14th, 2005, 01:45 PM	#6
QKShooter Assistant Administrator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Runthegun, USA Posts: 19,125	Hummmmmmmmm....... Five SOLID minutes of uninterrupted HIGHLY INTENSIVE training with a BlueGun ~ A tad bit of additional money spent on the exact proper shade of nicely fitting BDUs ~ and "topped off" with a well earned (hopefully brightly chrome plated) "CCHero" Badge...What's The problem:questionm "Their "Faculty" consisted of three guys who could have passed as my grandfather's poker buddies..." Was it these three guys? __________________ http://obamacrimes.com/ Read about Berg V. Obama Certificate Of Live Birth analysis http://obamacrimes.com/index.php/com...lysis-part-one Last edited by QKShooter; February 14th, 2005 at 02:02 PM.

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February 14th, 2005, 08:53 AM	#3
Bud White VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 17,476	We have soem of them at the gun shows to i walk right on by never even stop to look would be too tempted to make fun of them

February 14th, 2005, 12:50 PM	#5
David Armstrong Membership Revoked Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 79	A rather touchy issue, and one that is full of potential for problems. Some trainers/schools have very loyal followings but are frowned upon by others. Sort of depends on what you are interested in. One of the more popular instructors out there gets a lot of people coming to his courses, but is roundly condemned by most quality instructors. He tends to appeal to a lot of Rambo-wannabees ("Come take the newest Anti-Terrorist Personal Interdiction Program and learn to single-handedly defeat 10 machinegun-armed tangoes with just your handy dandy super ninja tactical kniife/blowgun/sniper rifle combo!") and those that don't know much better, but those wannabees will rant and rave about how good an instructor he is. And sometimes when dealing with larger sites the issue becomes one of luck, as in which instructor is on call this course? My personal suggestion is to avoid the obvious flakes, such as those you described, but also be aware that some of the reputable schools aren't always that reputable.