Point Shooting Home Study Course. - Page 3

sojourner · January 1st, 2008, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Temkin

First of all, Happy New Year to everyone.
Being married with kids my New Years Eve was quite tame.
As to accuracy....Fairbairn and Applegate wrote about a six inch group as the standard of acceptable accuracy for a beginner.
Cirillo mentioned groups about the size of a clenched fist.
This is a fine standard but one that can be improved upon with practice.
Then again, I have had students who,within minutes of training, could place a thumb size cluster of bullets into the target just as fast as they could pull the trigger.
One of my long term students calls this system, "Aimed fire accuracy with point shooting target focus and speed", which sums this method accuracy potential quite well.
Lastly, practicing with airguns, airsoft and Sims is just as helpful as shooting live ammo.

If I am reading this right, then a 4.25" diameter circle is completely applicable. Correct? If that is the case, I would not go into the time/energy to create a solution in need of an actual problem.

Matthew Temkin · January 1st, 2008, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sojourner

If I am reading this right, then a 4.25" diameter circle is completely applicable. Correct? If that is the case, I would not go into the time/energy to create a solution in need of an actual problem.

Yes..that is quite good.
Remember that we are training to shoot at someone who is shooting back at us.
Which is a whole other mind/skill set as opposed to target shooting.

Troy Price · January 2nd, 2008, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sojourner

When you are talking about acceptable accuracy, what is your definition? I am interested in knowing if it falls inside or outside the 4.25" diamater circle.

When I talk about "acceptable accuracy" I am speaking of groups sized 4-6 inches centered in the chest.

Matthew Temkin · January 13th, 2008, 10:21 AM

BTTT
Many thanks to Ken at ICCF for the update and the addition of illustrations.

LongRider · January 13th, 2008, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticks

I plan on going to the local ultra book mart and getting the two books mentioned (Kill or Get Killed and Shooting to Live)

Use the link to download a PDF copy of Kill or Get Killed and this link for a PDF copy of Shooting To Live both are from GutterFighting.Org where you will find a great deal intersting and usefull information
Matthew thanks for your post. Useful info there. Copied it and made a PDF file of it

Sticks · January 14th, 2008, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongRider

Use the link to download a PDF copy of Kill or Get Killed and this link for a PDF copy of Shooting To Live both are from GutterFighting.Org where you will find a great deal intersting and usefull information
Matthew thanks for your post. Useful info there. Copied it and made a PDF file of it

Thank you for the links! I just hope the words "Copyright Infringement" don't come up.

Tony Siciliano · January 14th, 2008, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Temkin

Lastly, practicing with airguns, airsoft and Sims is just as helpful as shooting live ammo.

I agree with using airsoft and Simunitions / UTM in Force on Force scenarios.

I disagree with this in reference to recoil management, which IMO is a key component to gaining and maintaining tight groups as speed increases.

Sticks · January 14th, 2008, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Siciliano

I agree with using airsoft and Simunitions / UTM in Force on Force scenarios.

I disagree with this in reference to recoil management, which IMO is a key component to gaining and maintaining tight groups as speed increases.

Absolutely, there is no substitute for the real thing. Sim weapon usage builds muscle memory and technique.

bobcat35 · January 14th, 2008, 12:42 PM

there are airsoft guns desinged to simulat the actual recoil of live fireing. you'll find these primarily with the gass blowbacks all of wich offer some recoil. look specificly for the "hardkick". the ballistics are still quite differant beyond 30M even with hopup though the actual distance of noticable defferance varies due to many factors. but its a very versitile training aid even with these minor problems.

January 14th, 2008, 12:42 PM	#29
bobcat35 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 556	there are airsoft guns desinged to simulat the actual recoil of live fireing. you'll find these primarily with the gass blowbacks all of wich offer some recoil. look specificly for the "hardkick". the ballistics are still quite differant beyond 30M even with hopup though the actual distance of noticable defferance varies due to many factors. but its a very versitile training aid even with these minor problems. __________________ Waddell: We're not being shot at yet. Grimes: How can you tell? Waddell: A hiss means it's close. A snap means... [a bullet whizzes close by] Waddell: Now they're shooting at us!

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January 13th, 2008, 10:21 AM	#24
Matthew Temkin Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: nyc Posts: 177	BTTT Many thanks to Ken at ICCF for the update and the addition of illustrations.