jeff1911

I think we need to respect our vets better than this and especially our instructors that come from a military background.
Fellow vets,
>
> While searching for information on concealed handgun courses here
> in Reno, Nevada I came across this insult from some local
> know-it-all firearms instructors:
>
> *"Military experience does not have much to do with real life."
> *-- Dave Keller and Mike Robbins, Sierra Firearms Academy.
>
> WTF?? I don't know about you, but this pisses me off. I don't
> appreciate this one bit. So, I didn't fight on Iwo Jima or in
> Fallujah, but I damn sure shot a lot of weapons when I was in the
> Corps. I don't need a couple of hooker-busting, drunk-rousting,
> donut-munching street cops from Reno telling me that my military
> service counts for nothing and doesn't have "much to do with
real
> life." Who are these people to tell me about real life? Sounds
> like a typical "us versus them" haughty cop attitude. If you
> ain't a cop, you ain't shite, in other words. I have nothing
> against cops, but these jokers - *ex cops*- by the way - need a
> smackdown. In lieu of that, an apology. Let them know how you
> feel. I will. And I'll be sure that everyone at my VFW does ,too.

jeff1911

Sorry missed the link in the email.

Introduction

calmp9

I took my nonresident Nevada CCW training from Semper Firearms. Of course, the instructors were, you guessed it, former Marines. I enjoyed the class tremendously and they stressed safety and doing what it takes to stay alive, to run if possible, shoot if it's the last resort. These guys are good and I recommend them to anybody.

Con43

I also took my training from Semper Firearms. Great instructor and nice facility. Covered all needed aspects and then some of concealed carry. I would reccomend this facility and instructor to anyone wanting knowledgeable and competent training. All veterns wanting this type training should come here."Military experience does not have much to do with real life". I submit being a cop for X number of years is no guarantee of real life experience either. They operate in there own little world of us against them and there rules are not the rules everyone else must follow. There "real life" perspective usally follows these line also. I would much rather have a Force Recon/Ranger/Seal in my corner when SHTF then any of the "Joe Jocks/Sally Cheerleaders who thought it might be neet to be a cop.

uakaos

being from reno myself this kinda pisses me off.
im a huge supporter of the military and guys that say stuff like that should be cracked in the jaw.

__________________
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it."

Sweatnbullets

There is a lot more to being a good firearms instructor than what uniform you use to wear.

I am pro LEO/military/civilian firearms instructor, as long as they know what they are doing and take good care of their students.

I am anti-elitest, no matter how much they know or who they are.

__________________
Situations dictate strategy, strategy dictates tactics, and tactics dictate techniques. If you can......get to your sights!

Roger Phillips, Suarez International Specialist Instructor http://www.suarezinternational.com/

jeff1911

Absolutely pro military pro cops pro gun and all for seeing those who provide good service and products surviving and thriving. Just don't tell me my military experience has little to do with real life.
I learned alot not just about weapons but a lot about people and leadership and what makes a man.
I equate this to Massad Ayoob saying Jeff Cooper ain't jack. I beg to differ.

Anubis

In looking at the linked web page, I did not see the quoted phrase "Military experience does not have much to do with real life."

I did see "Mike is a US Army Infantry veteran, so knows the difference between military warfare and civilian violence. While there are similarities, they are few", which seems fairly reasonable and not insulting.

__________________
"If you got to shoot, shoot! Don't talk!" -Tuco Ramirez-

C.W. Fischer

I would like to second the recommendation of Semper Fi. They are outstanding.

Rob99VMI04

Believe me I'm very pro Military, pro concealed carry, and very much a heart blood pumping American who believes in supporting the military as well as supporting the commander in chief.

I can see where both sides are coming from and I think both sides have there points. I have trained a few a few guys both civilian and Military.

Military service counts for a lot and I will say thank you to any vet who served our country in war or time of peace, since they basically sacrificed their own personal freedom to keep others safe.

However, IMO this is not to be taken mean or demeaning in any fashion I don't know if relating Military service to Concealed Carry is the same. Nor do I think Law Enforcement Training is equal either.

I think they are 3 completely different animals.

Military/LE can assume a more Offensive role with their firearms training (Proactive)
Civilians are general strictly defensive (Reactive) this requires a semi differn't mindset as well as different training techniques both tactical and awareness.

Some of them do over lap with each others techniques but it does differ in some very important areas like legal, liability.

Also, the gear that one carriers in each of the three varies. Military carry Rifles/Machine guns some carry pistols, in a Drop leg, Flap holster, shoulder holster etc.......LE carry a belt holster generally with at minimum 2 levels sometimes 3 levels of retention. Civilians outside of their homes (for the most part are concealed) and carry in a multiple differn't modes of carry. Brief cases, purses, ankles, shoulders, Strong sides, tuckables, SOB, Cross draw.

But just like the UH-60 Blackhawk Pilot who suddenly gets slotted to fly AH-64 he must go through some type of retraining or FAM situation in order to be checked off as GTG. Yes some of the controls over lap on the chopper they both are rotary wing but they serve 2 completly differn't missions and have differn't methods of flying.

IMO CIVILIAN vs. MIILTARY vs. LE. Is no differn't depending on which hat/role your playing at the moment. If Rob Leatham wanted to be Delta Force would they check the box because hes probably one of the best pistol shooters in the world, I sincerly doubt it.

Maybe this instructor came off a little rompus with his choice of words but I some what agree with his way of thinking. If I'm your instructor I'm certainly not going to check you off just because of a prior organization you belonged to. I"m going to train you the way I'm supposed to depending on the standard that you need to know.

From your stand point I would agree your correct! Since it seems like you 've done your research on all 3 topics and may understand what hat you NEED to be wearing in regards to what activity your doing. However, I've seen seen at our range a lot uniformed LE and Military folks come in who claim to know how to shoot a gun because they where In the Military/LE. I ask them what gun they want to rent and I they usually say well I've shot a 9mm I think I want to shoot a .45. I usually wait for them to tell me which one of the 13 we rent out. Then say "Do you have a Manufacturer your interested in?" Response, "Just a Standard .45? After, my blank look and me usually saying OKAY!!!! That still leaves me with about 13. I usually say I think your asking for a 1911. Sometimes they ask me if it has a safety. At that point I can't rent it to them because to rent one they have to Intimately familiar with that gun.

So I know what your saying but IMO in order to know how to do a specific task, technique, or activity you must have training on that equipment.

Just a thought!

__________________
To be effective in carrying a gun for self defense requires 3 things a #1 positive- aware-mindset, #2 good training #3 good equipment. Equating this to numbers shows us that if you lack one of these=ZERO times anything is STILL ZERO!-4th grade Math

"When seconds count.....Cops Respond in Minutes"