Go Back   DefensiveCarry Concealed Carry Forum > Carry Discussion > Defensive Carry & Tactical Training
Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read
Forum Donations DefensiveCarry Store DefensiveCarry Gallery USGO Gallery Related Links Forum Help & Extras

Defensive Carry & Tactical Training Concealed carry licensing courses, combat shooting skills, strategy, tactics, shoot/don't shoot training. It's all here.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old May 28th, 2008, 08:05 PM   #1
Distinguished Member
 
KenpoTex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Springfield, Missouri
Posts: 1,755
KenpoTex
Malfunction clearing

This video is from James Yeager of Tactical Response and addresses the 3 types of malfunctions in a semi-auto pistol and how to deal with them.

YouTube - Malfunction Clearing for a Pistol
__________________
"There are no substitutes for violence of action and volume of fire..." ~Otto Skorzeny

If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

Matt K.
KenpoTex is offline  
Old May 28th, 2008, 09:15 PM   #2
Assistant Administrator
 
QKShooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Off Of The X
Posts: 19,777
QKShooter is a forum contributor
Thumbs up

Nice find and great addition for the forum Matt.

Lots of new members here these past few weeks and I hope they will take some time out to watch it.
__________________

Support Our Military.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
QKShooter is online now  
Old May 28th, 2008, 09:48 PM   #3
Member
 
DCJS Instructor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: CONUS
Posts: 194
DCJS Instructor is a forum contributor
STOPPAGE HANDOUT

By: Tom Perroni

Stoppage - Anything that interrupts the firing cycle.

A. Failure to feed - When Round fails to chamber completely.

1. Magazine not seated completely

2. Bad ammunition

3. Damaged magazine - magazine follower, spring, lips, body

4. Dirty weapon - insufficient lubrication


B. Failure to Fire - The trigger is pressed, the firing mechanism functions but the weapon does not fire.

1. No round in chamber

2. Bad round in chamber

3. Slide out of battery

4. Damaged Weapon

a. Firing Pin
b. Hammer Spring


C. Fail to Extract - The weapon fires, but the case stays in the chamber.
(AKA Double Feed)

1. Debris under extractor (maintenance)

2. Bad Ammunition (case rim)

3. Broken extractor


D. Fail to Eject - The weapon fires but the fired cartridge case is caught between the bolt fact of the slide and the chamber portion of the barrel.

1. Shooter Induced

a. Limp wrist

b. Arms not locked

2. Bad Ammunition

a. No power to operate slide

3. Broken extractor

4. Dirty Weapon - insufficient lubrication


STOPPAGE CLASSIFICATIONS

I. Phase I Non mechanical stoppages that can be quickly cleared: No round in chamber, bad round, magazine not seated, stovepipe.

A. Failure to feed

B. Failure to fire

C. Failure to eject


II. Phase II Non Mechanical stoppages that can be cleared but require more time. Double feed/two failures to fire.

A. Failure to extract


III. Phase III Mechanical failures that require a departmental Armorer to correct.

A. Breakage

B. Wear


Daily inspection and periodic firing and cleaning will help avert having a Phase III stoppage at an inopportune time.
HOW TO CLEAR A STOPPAGE

I. Phase I Clears the Majority of all stoppages 1.5 - 3 seconds

A. TAP the magazine with the off hand in the same manner as when loading the weapon

B. RACK the slide in the same manner as when chambering a round.

C. FIGHT if situation still warrants press the trigger.


II. Phase II the Phase I clearance drill will clear the majority of all NON mechanical stoppages. If the Phase I drill does not clear your weapon, do not waste time trying it again, find cover if you are not tactically safe. Use back up weapon/shotgun. If your life is not immediately in jeopardy, go to Phase II - 8-12 seconds.

A. Lock the slide open, RIP magazine out and let it fall to ground OR...

1.Because you are tactically safe, you should try to save it.

2. It is mandatory that you save the magazine if it is the last
one you have.

B. RACK the slide twice to clear malfunction

C. RELOAD insert fresh magazine and chamber round

III. Phase III a stoppage with the slide stuck forward

1. Release magazine

2. Use support hand to firmly grasp slide over ejection port

3. Using the web of the weapon hand drive “through” the grip, forcing the slide to move

4. Once cleared, reload

All clearance drills must be done with finger out of trigger guard to prevent unintentional discharges. It is imperative that your shooting wrist and arm be rigid to prevent creating a double feed.
DCJS Instructor is offline  
Old May 28th, 2008, 11:19 PM   #4
Distinguished Member
 
Rob99VMI04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ABOVE is the FOOTPRINT of a common american CHICKEN
Posts: 1,656
Rob99VMI04
IMHO..... The type I , II , or III malfunctions if its real close imminient danger! I.E. a attack on you on the streets. Yeah its nice knowing these but I would probably estimate that unless the attention is off of you and on something else, its nice knowing how to do these but I do not practice them for a simple reason.

TAP! RACK! RE Assess! if you have to still BANG!
TAP (Tap the bottom of the magazine)
Rack (Rack the slide or charging handle)
RE-Assess (If the threat has procluded to end the attack you don't shoot, if the threat still is coming BANG)

Something real close and personal if you try anything else your probably in big trouble......... IF TAP RACK ASSESS dosn't work.....The Item in your hand is no longer a bullet launcher but is NOW A HAMMER!!!! and use the legs god gave you. -
__________________
"You may find me one day dead in a ditch somewhere. But by God, you'll find me in a pile of brass." - Trooper M. Padgett

"When seconds count.....Cops Respond in Minutes"
Rob99VMI04 is offline  
Old May 29th, 2008, 07:09 PM   #5
Member
 
DCJS Instructor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: CONUS
Posts: 194
DCJS Instructor is a forum contributor
Rob,

can you expound on this "RE-Assess (If the threat has procluded to end the attack you don't shoot, if the threat still is coming BANG)"

I am not sure I fully understand.


The fastest re-load or I.A.D. is a back-up gun!


Tom Perroni
DCJS Instructor is offline  
Old May 29th, 2008, 09:21 PM   #6
Distinguished Member
 
Rob99VMI04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ABOVE is the FOOTPRINT of a common american CHICKEN
Posts: 1,656
Rob99VMI04
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCJS Instructor View Post
Rob,

can you expound on this "RE-Assess (If the threat has procluded to end the attack you don't shoot, if the threat still is coming BANG)"

I am not sure I fully understand.


The fastest re-load or I.A.D. is a back-up gun!


Tom Perroni
Tom,
In lou of Tap rack BANG. You can use what ever terminology you want to on bang or re-assess; however, working the civilian side and talking to a few lawyers from a civilian side of things " TAP, RACK, BANG could possible lead you into further troubles down the road. If you train properly tap rack and re-asses can be performed very rapidly; however, practing gross motor skills of TAP RACK BANG while the guy has his hands in the air and his homies are witnessing could lead to further trouble. Its problem that exist in the overall scheme of saying there is ONE right way.

I believe in certain ways of being "Most" effective; however, I also believe in playing the odds that are greater on the best chance of survival and winning a future law suit civilly secondly. Believe me if a LE person is attacked I believe in the that all things out the window, and that all respect for that LE officer are out the window and that whatever actions taken by that person are probably appropriate. However, to protect a citizen civilly and criminally they are actually held to a differn't standard. That standard is actually held HIGHER then a LE officer which is unfortunate but true.

Civilians do not enjoy the same protection that somebody with credentials enjoys while enforcing the law or constitution.

IMHO and most courts exspecially in Virginia do not have castle doctorine and have the DUTY to retreat/ make / make decisions faster and more liable then LE officers/ Military folks enjoy ( more like have the ability to excersise) that your average civilian carrying a gun do.

Civilians in VA have to exersise more judgment as to NOT drop the hammer then cops do in the commonwealth. In order to avoid prosecution/ civil liability. I know most people practice common sense man doctrine which to you and I makes COMPLETE sense. However, to 12 peers/jurors/people/ possible gun haters/idoits they may not see it the same.
__________________
"You may find me one day dead in a ditch somewhere. But by God, you'll find me in a pile of brass." - Trooper M. Padgett

"When seconds count.....Cops Respond in Minutes"
Rob99VMI04 is offline  
Old May 29th, 2008, 10:16 PM   #7
Member
 
DCJS Instructor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: CONUS
Posts: 194
DCJS Instructor is a forum contributor
Rob,


Thanks for the response.

However let’s try this on for size...

In order for any citizen to have the need to do a malfunction drill while in a gunfight they must first have the following:

Ability
Opportunity
Jeopardy
Preclusion

In the commonwealth or any state for that matter once this is established you have the grounds to defend yourself.

IMHO if you are in a gunfight and must complete an IAD do you really think the perp will be giving up the fight when your gun malfunctions more importantly will he have time to "Give Up” how long will it take to do an IAD 1-3 seconds? I train LE and civilians in this very situation.
I suggest that anyone who carries a firearm for defensive purposes work with FOF scenarios. We teach LE that it takes 1.5 sec for a perp to cover 7 yards or 21 feet running at the officer. But when in a gunfight and we do an IAD we must assess before you pull the trigger again?

I am not a lawyer just a firearms instructor but I say if you hesitate you will die.

Tom
DCJS Instructor is offline  
Old May 29th, 2008, 10:24 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: West Coast
Posts: 19
rumblefish
I've found the following video to be helpful.

Click on the solid arrow on the video screen.

American Handgunner Web Blast
rumblefish is offline  
Old May 29th, 2008, 10:31 PM   #9
Member
 
DCJS Instructor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: CONUS
Posts: 194
DCJS Instructor is a forum contributor
rumblefish,

Thanks! nice video!

I have trained with Clint! This just proves my point thanks!

I have also trained with James Yeagor he is Good to go as well!

Tom
DCJS Instructor is offline  
Old May 29th, 2008, 10:46 PM   #10
Distinguished Member
 
Rob99VMI04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ABOVE is the FOOTPRINT of a common american CHICKEN
Posts: 1,656
Rob99VMI04
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCJS Instructor View Post
Rob,


Thanks for the response.

However let’s try this on for size...

In order for any citizen to have the need to do a malfunction drill while in a gunfight they must first have the following:

Ability
Opportunity
Jeopardy
Preclusion

In the commonwealth or any state for that matter once this is established you have the grounds to defend yourself.

IMHO if you are in a gunfight and must complete an IAD do you really think the perp will be giving up the fight when your gun malfunctions more importantly will he have time to "Give Up” how long will it take to do an IAD 1-3 seconds? I train LE and civilians in this very situation.
I suggest that anyone who carries a firearm for defensive purposes work with FOF scenarios. We teach LE that it takes 1.5 sec for a perp to cover 7 yards or 21 feet running at the officer. But when in a gunfight and we do an IAD we must assess before you pull the trigger again?

I am not a lawyer just a firearms instructor but I say if you hesitate you will die.

Tom
Lets be honost most people don't know how to nor practice how to fire from a retentive position. So why make it more complicated and have people have to think about something more than they have to. Most people go to a static range and try to cut out the x ring. However, for self defense/ surving a deadly encounter thats not whats needed the majority of the time.

I suggest that people that take the leap and carry a gun for self defense should not train 100% around said system.

Don't get me wrong a New York reload is the best alternative to your primary failing; however, I also realize that most people don't have the financial ability to afford training/ good training to a back up gun. However, I also realize that not everybody falls into the same catagory of having the luxery of being able to afford training on a good BUG and or BUG. In that case the best alternative to that is good old hand to hand or using a object to incure blunt force trauma. Yes, most modern guns will probably work just fine; however, when the clock is ticking and your by yourself!!!!! Focusing, on how to clear a type III malfunction probably isn't the best alternative for a civilian expecially since that now its real close and personal.
__________________
"You may find me one day dead in a ditch somewhere. But by God, you'll find me in a pile of brass." - Trooper M. Padgett

"When seconds count.....Cops Respond in Minutes"
Rob99VMI04 is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:20 PM.


bestBest selection of rifle scopes, holsters, belts, pouches, gun accessories, gun cases, dry boxes, flashlights, night vision, binoculars, sunglasses. Information and 1000's of military, law enforcement, tactical gear from OpticsPlanet and Tactical Store w/ FREE UPS! Top brands - 5.11, Bianchi, BlackHawk, Bushnell, EOT ech, Leupold, Pelican, Galco, Fobus, Safariland, Steiner, StreamLight, SureFire, Nikon, Trijicon, UnderArmour, Uncle Mike's, Wiley X,

Hosted ByTranquil Hosting

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0
Copyright DefensiveCarry.com © 2004-2008