SoftPoint

Does anyone know of any sites that the ammo listed in the title were tested in various media? I love to see penetration and expansion numbers and pictures with this stuff.

Stephen A. Camp

Hello. Here is one. It is for their Silvertip 115-gr. JHP, but results should be the same for the USA as it uses the same bullet, but w/o the silver finish:

http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/t...winchester,9mm

This link provides data on several 9mm cartridges including the Winchester STHP. It's toward the bottom of the page:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/9mm.htm

In my own informal expansion/penetration tests, the Winchester USA 115-gr. JHP penetrated approx. 6" of super-saturated newsprint, which translates to roughly 9 or 10" of 10% ballistic gelatin. The bullet expanded to 0.64 x 0.61 x0.31" tall and the recovered bullet weighed 112 grains.

From 2 Browning Hi Powers, 10-shot average velocities were 1161 and 1154 ft/sec.

Best.

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P95Carry

Dang Steve - what would we do without you! Thx.

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If a BG dies as the result of pointing a gun at me, then he has merely succumbed to an occupational hazard of being a thug

Stephen A. Camp

Hello. I dug around and found a picture on my disc of expanded 9mm bullets I did in the book on ammo.

Here's one for the Winchester USA 115-gr. JHP:


Results in water and super-saturated newsprint were very similar. The few I've seen dug out of people were not so uniform, though one was more greatly "chewed" up than the other. Both did the trick, but were straight-on, unobstructed torso hits. If memory serves, one dude went down on the first shot. The other required a second "treatment." I do not remember if they lived or died.

Best.

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SoftPoint

Does using the 147 grain usa jhp have any advantage in citizen defense/protection scenarios? The reason I ask is that my gun really likes the 115's for accuracy and feeding, and if my gun likes it I feel more\comfortable carrying them.

Joshua M. Smith

I feel you're at a disadvantage with the old style JHP in 147gr.

That said I would take a mid-weight in the old style over anything else. I believe they scoot along fast enough to expand and penetrate well enough to reach the vitals.

Josh <><

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Stephen A. Camp

Hello. Though they expanded nicely for me in my own "tests," were I going to use 147-gr. JHP's in 9mm, I'd probably go with either:

Winchester Ranger
Speer Gold Dot
Remington Golden Saber

These do seem to be the better performers. I found that POI vs POA were pretty much the same with any of the 9mm 147-gr bullets, at least out to 15 yards.

One might buy a couple of boxes of the premium, high-dollar stuff and shoot enough to be sure of function and then practice with the less costly ammo.

I had zero problems with any of them in Hi Powers, CZ-75's, or Glock 26/17.

This weight bullet was intially introduced to provide better 50 yard accuracy from MP5 SMG's being used by certain of our military folks.
After the mess in Miami, the FBI protocols insisted that penetration needed to be at least 12" or the round was useless. I sort of take issue with that, but the 147's will penetrate in excess of that. Older versions of these bullets from Winchester, Remington, and Federal didn't expand well, but this may have changed. The recommended loads above will expand nicely and penetrate deeply.

I prefer a bit more velocity, but folks using these rounds report nice things.

Best.

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SoftPoint

So if you were going to strictly use the win usa's, which would you select for citizen self defense 115 or 147. I say citizen self defense because I dont believe I need to shoot thru barriers and need the law enforcement criteria. If you are interested in my reasoning for using 115, it is that almost all hollowpoints penetrate deeper in real world situations than in ballistic gellatin. Most BG's that are shot are wearing at least minimal clothing which clogs up the hollow point and slows expansion while increasing penetration, therefore retaining enough momentum to damage vital organs. The 147 grain will expand even slower or possibly not at all when clogged, and you might just have a bullet size exit wound and less deposited energy on the target.. What do you think of my logic? Even if you believe it is flawed, please comment because I am now, and always will be, learning.

Stephen A. Camp

Hello. Were I choosing strictly between Winchester USA 115 or 147-gr., my own personal preference would be for the 115-gr. JHP. It will probably do better through cloth than the slower heavier 147-gr.

Others might prefer the exact opposite choice, citing the deeper penetration but my own preference would be for the 115-gr. if sticking strickly with Winchester USA.

Best.

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SoftPoint

That was may feeling exactly, thank you for your expertise and advice.