Difference in ammo

MIKEV · August 24th, 2006, 09:59 AM

Hey Guys,

Just a quick question on ammo.

Will 165 grain fmj .40S&W for target practice have any noticable difference than 180 grain jhp used as "duty" round when it comes to POA and stuff. My question is not refering to stopping, penatration etc, jsut will I need to make any adjustments?

Thanks in advance
Mike V

p.s. baby is doing great,

ccw9mm · August 24th, 2006, 10:48 AM

There is great ammo and truly substandard ammo. Which are you speaking of, specifically? (make/model of specific round)

That said, in 9mm calibration I typically use Remington/UMC FMJ range rounds and either Remington Golden Saber, Federal HydraShok or CorBon JHP rounds. The Federals seem to be the most accurate, most consistent over time. But the difference are largely kick/recoil due to the power loading, smoke due to how clean the powder is. POA is pretty much unaffected, in my experience.

Now, get some shoddy makes, or some poor hand loads, or perhaps some of the cheap manufactured rounds and there may be some minor differences.

MIKEV · August 24th, 2006, 10:54 AM

Remmington for both, as avail. at Wal-mart of course!

MikeV

ccw9mm · August 24th, 2006, 11:10 AM

Between the Remington Golden Saber and the Remington/UMC range rounds (in the bright yellow boxes), I have seen variations in consistency. The GS is always more reliable, more consistent, with less feed/cycling issues. Might be due to some variation in head spacing, quality of bullets used, burrs on the casings, or whatever. As well, there's more smoke/crud that comes from the UMC rounds. GS seems a tad more accurate, but it's minor. This is in a Browning BDM 9mm. YMMV.

craze · August 24th, 2006, 01:15 PM

The 165s may hit different than 180s. I ussually shoot 180gr WWB for practice. I recently purchased 400 rounds of 165gr WWB because it was on sale at Bass Pro. They group a good 3'' lower than the 180s through my Ruger P-94. The group just as well but they shoot noticeable lower.

nn · August 24th, 2006, 03:41 PM

I had a different point of impact between 165 and 180 grain bullets.
wwb 165 and unknown 180's. The 180 hit lower than 165 at 15 yds.

farronwolf · August 24th, 2006, 04:06 PM

It is understandable that a heavier grain bullet will drop quicker out of the barrel.

How much lower did the 180 grain hit lower than the 165, 1/2 inch, 1 inch? It surely can't be much lower at only 15 yds. If it is you need to try different ammo.

If you intend on shooting in self defense at 15 yds then adjust your sights so that your practice rounds are that 1/2 or 1 inch higher and just practice knowing that the 180's will be on target.

MIKEV · August 24th, 2006, 05:43 PM

Ok, so what I gathered so far is that yes there may be a difference in the impact points of the 2 different types of ammo.

Also, after firing about 100-200 rounds of each and determining exactly what that difference will be if any, practice with the 165fmj expecting it to be "off" from where the 180jhp will be.

Which brings up a new question. How do I not train myself to the 165 but to the 180 using the 165? I don't expect to be able to think "now remember this mag has the hollow points in so aim a little higher." in the heat of it if TSHTF.

MikeV

Blackhawk6 · August 24th, 2006, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIKEV

Which brings up a new question. How do I not train myself to the 165 but to the 180 using the 165? I don't expect to be able to think "now remember this mag has the hollow points in so aim a little higher." in the heat of it if TSHTF.

Unless the shift in POI is radically different between the two (which is highly doubtful), I would not worry about it. A two or three inch difference in POA/POI is negligible for almost all defensive shooting. Most shooters are incapable of shooting well enough that any such deviation would matter.

If you are practicing surgical shooting, find a 180-grain practice load that duplicates your carry ammunition or use your carry ammunition.

gotammo · August 25th, 2006, 12:21 AM

practice with the same grain you carry with, most practice ammo will shoot close enough to carry ammo of the same weight.

August 24th, 2006, 09:59 AM	#1
MIKEV Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: PDRMD Posts: 268	Difference in ammo Hey Guys, Just a quick question on ammo. Will 165 grain fmj .40S&W for target practice have any noticable difference than 180 grain jhp used as "duty" round when it comes to POA and stuff. My question is not refering to stopping, penatration etc, jsut will I need to make any adjustments? Thanks in advance Mike V p.s. baby is doing great,

August 24th, 2006, 10:48 AM	#2
ccw9mm VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Oregon USA Posts: 6,025	There is great ammo and truly substandard ammo. Which are you speaking of, specifically? (make/model of specific round) That said, in 9mm calibration I typically use Remington/UMC FMJ range rounds and either Remington Golden Saber, Federal HydraShok or CorBon JHP rounds. The Federals seem to be the most accurate, most consistent over time. But the difference are largely kick/recoil due to the power loading, smoke due to how clean the powder is. POA is pretty much unaffected, in my experience. Now, get some shoddy makes, or some poor hand loads, or perhaps some of the cheap manufactured rounds and there may be some minor differences. __________________ Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it. Reports: CZ P01 pt1, pt2. Thoughts: Justifiable self defense. Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims? Tip: Use the <search> feature.

August 24th, 2006, 11:10 AM	#4
ccw9mm VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Oregon USA Posts: 6,025	Between the Remington Golden Saber and the Remington/UMC range rounds (in the bright yellow boxes), I have seen variations in consistency. The GS is always more reliable, more consistent, with less feed/cycling issues. Might be due to some variation in head spacing, quality of bullets used, burrs on the casings, or whatever. As well, there's more smoke/crud that comes from the UMC rounds. GS seems a tad more accurate, but it's minor. This is in a Browning BDM 9mm. YMMV. __________________ Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it. Reports: CZ P01 pt1, pt2. Thoughts: Justifiable self defense. Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims? Tip: Use the <search> feature.

August 24th, 2006, 04:06 PM	#7
farronwolf Distinguished Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 1,513	It is understandable that a heavier grain bullet will drop quicker out of the barrel. How much lower did the 180 grain hit lower than the 165, 1/2 inch, 1 inch? It surely can't be much lower at only 15 yds. If it is you need to try different ammo. If you intend on shooting in self defense at 15 yds then adjust your sights so that your practice rounds are that 1/2 or 1 inch higher and just practice knowing that the 180's will be on target. __________________ Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.

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August 24th, 2006, 10:54 AM	#3
MIKEV Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: PDRMD Posts: 268	Remmington for both, as avail. at Wal-mart of course! MikeV

August 24th, 2006, 01:15 PM	#5
craze Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Missouri Posts: 341	The 165s may hit different than 180s. I ussually shoot 180gr WWB for practice. I recently purchased 400 rounds of 165gr WWB because it was on sale at Bass Pro. They group a good 3'' lower than the 180s through my Ruger P-94. The group just as well but they shoot noticeable lower.

August 24th, 2006, 03:41 PM	#6
nn VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: NC Posts: 4,367	I had a different point of impact between 165 and 180 grain bullets. wwb 165 and unknown 180's. The 180 hit lower than 165 at 15 yds.

August 24th, 2006, 05:43 PM	#8
MIKEV Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: PDRMD Posts: 268	Ok, so what I gathered so far is that yes there may be a difference in the impact points of the 2 different types of ammo. Also, after firing about 100-200 rounds of each and determining exactly what that difference will be if any, practice with the 165fmj expecting it to be "off" from where the 180jhp will be. Which brings up a new question. How do I not train myself to the 165 but to the 180 using the 165? I don't expect to be able to think "now remember this mag has the hollow points in so aim a little higher." in the heat of it if TSHTF. MikeV

August 25th, 2006, 12:21 AM	#10
gotammo Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: CT Posts: 397	practice with the same grain you carry with, most practice ammo will shoot close enough to carry ammo of the same weight.