ELCruisr

Hmmm, it appears Superhouse 15 is right. I went looking and it's only the non hollow point 158 gr swc available in non +P. Sorry about that!

__________________
If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

pgrass101

You are correct it is +P sorry about that.

Darryl

sgtD

So far it seems like they have quit making any good stuff in non +p. Nyclads seem to be great in standard pressure as well as DPX (I think), but they quit loading it in non +p as far as I can find. Still searching. Might have to get some handload made by someone?

The 110 gr hydra-shok seems to be the choice, but has low penetration and loses it's jacket easily (if I can find it I'll link to the tests on this). Also, I dont' know about clothing barriers with the Hydra Shok.

Still haven't had time to look at Black Hills as suggested by Slider, and I read that Hornady might have an interesting load. I will post what I can find also, as a resource for anyone else.

I wonder if the 158gr non +p swc (not swchp)might be about as good as I can get. Bullet weight should ensure ok penetration, and it seems that hollowpoint spread is pretty much not going to happen at non+P velocities anyway.

Any thoughts on this or examples otherwise?

__________________
When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

P95Carry

sgt - did you check Steve's site - now I have workable url?

The 158 swchp's are IIRC put thru some wet pack tests and some pics to show that some expansion seems feasable. The solid swc's of course would not be expected to expand.

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/

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Chris - P95
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sgtD

Yes, IIRC his testsshow and he seems to prefer Nyclad and one other for non+p.(DPX I think, but I am at work and don't have time to verify that now) . But as I said, Nyclad is no longer made and the other is only offered in +p. It used to be offered as non +p but no longer.

I'll have to recheck in regard to the lswchp test in low pressure.

Thanks again for all your help folks

Added:Chris, Steve's test showed the DPX to be a good performer, but unfortunately like Nyclad, it's no longer available. Here is the link to the test for DPX, but it's now available only in +P.
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/C...ial%20Ammo.htm

A quote from Steve camp on this subject. "Those opting for revolvers should not go lighter than .38 Special +P."
found at http://hipowersandhandguns.com/FAQ%2...ng%20Power.htm

__________________
When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

Superhouse 15

Did some checking. Black Hills only lists non +P in remanufactured ammo, not new. Winchester still lists the 110 Silvertip. They also list some .38 non +P softpoints, but I've shot these and they don't expand in anything I shot them into. Mag Safe lists a standard pressure .38, but like the Glaser, a specialty load. Remington lists a 110gr JHP, and that style of bullet (the "scalloped jacket") might be more likely to expand from the short barrel. I shot the Hydra-Shok through light cloth, and it still expanded. I don't mind a little jacket or fragment separation. Doesn't worry me a bit, I think it makes for a bigger wound. The only other options would be to have a load reloaded for you, and if you did that, you'd probably get better quality from Black Hills than "Joe's Ammo and Fresh Bait Store" loads. Or, go with a solid SWC. Or, convince Federal to bring back the Nyclad

sgtD

Superhouse15:

So far, what I have gleaned is that if you intend to get enough velocity to expand with low pressure, you have to go with 110gr. That being said, you naturally loose some penetration with less weight.

I agree with jacket separation causing bigger wounds, but that also causes more weight/penetration loss, so theoretically could lead to failure to reach vitals. I would rather reach vitals with no expansion than risk a shallow wound with a 38, because IMO, it doesn't have that much shock power anyway.

I don't have a lot of pull at Federal, so I doubt i'll be able to get them to bring back nyclad,lol though I certainly wish they would.

I have seen both ggod and bad reprts on Fed 110gr HS, which is what I currently have for my non+p revolvers. I think I'll get some of the 110 gr offerings that you mentioned and try them out myself, short of finding data from someone else's testing that seems both reliable and consistent from more than one source.

__________________
When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

ELCruisr

sgtD, how about 158 gr XTP jhp from Hornady?

http://www.cascade-ammo.com/catalog....oduct&id=33745

Just thought it might be interesting...

__________________
If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

sgtD

This link is pretty inforamtive as far as test balistics go. Diiferent brands in an FBI test but it's from 1998, so might be a bit dated.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/38special.htm

ElCruisr: I'm looking into the hornady next.

__________________
When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

sgtD

Wow. If your a fan of milk jugs, don't look at this, but I think it's the best comparison of loads found without for simple water testing.

http://stevespages.com/page8f38special.html

__________________
When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.