9mm Ammo Comparison Report -- DoubleTap JHP +P vs. Federal Hydrashok Tactical JHP +P+

ccw9mm · December 11th, 2006, 08:20 AM

This is a direct comparison of two excellent 9mm JHP rounds. If you're looking for good carry ammo for your pistol, you might want to consider either of these two bullets.

The comparison, below, was done during a range session back in October, at which time I directly compared these two different makes of ammo in a single gun.

Some folks might find this interesting, if considering either one of these rounds.

Pistols Used -- CZ P01 9mm with an after-market stainless guide rod; and a Browning BDM 9mm, also with a stainless guide rod. For the purposes of this comparison, I will focus on the CZ P01. I did run some ammo through the BDM as well, but most of the comments here are related to use in the P01.
Ammo Compared --
- Federal Hydrashok Tactical 9mm JHP 124gr +P+. Federal has been around a long time. They are strongly represented amongst the police community, for duty weapons. They make several reliable, strong loads. While the FHP +P+ isn't generally found at your corner store, Federals can be found most anywhere. Fairly consistent across a dozen boxes, in terms of the case, the length, the crimping.
- DoubleTap 9mm JHP 124gr +P. DT is a relatively new manufacturer. Their equipment is new. In a discussion with one of the DT folks, it was clear that their new equipment, calibration and attention to detail has paid off with highly-accurate and reliable ammunition. Random visual comparisons of samples from each box of the DT's shows little-to-no variation between bullets; a caliper measurement would probably show this.
Criteria for Caring/Judging -- Reliability of cycling; consistency from one bullet to another; practicality for sufficient training to support daily carry. If ammo can't do that well, it's outta here (in terms of consideration for my own carry piece).
Overall Length -- The shortest ammo I've used in these two guns is the CorBon Pow'r Ball. It won't feed at all. Most range ammo I use is of similar OAL, and generally feeds well. The FHT is longer still, by a margin, and is quite a bit better-feeding and more reliable. And, finally, the DT rounds are noticeably longer than everything, and marginally longer than the FHT rounds ... and they have been 100% reliable. Noticeably smoother-feeding, cycling. Coincidents? Perhaps but, FWIW, I have noticed a correlation between shorter rounds and increased cycling failures in each of three pistols, most notably the BDM and a Kahr PM9 I'm reviewing. My theory is that this OAL difference is a primary contributor to the extremely smooth and reliable feeding of the DT rounds, at least in my two pistols.
Case Lips -- The DT rounds have a much tighter case lip, where the edge is tighter against the bullet. Running a finger over the FHT case lips allows the fingernail to easily catch on the lip; whereas, doing the same on the DT rounds shows the lips to be crimped much more tightly to the side of the bullet. Many folks have mentioned that rifle velocities can be impacted by tighter or looser lips. Perhaps this explains part of the heavier kick and speeds of the DT rounds over the FHT, as well as some of the feed reliability. Does it impact cycling reliability? Logically, it should; but, I don't know for certain.
Feed Smoothness -- DT's were extremely smooth and clean feeding. Noticeably smoother than the FHT's. Both are head and shoulders above the smoothness of other rounds I have tried. Smooth is good, as it helps show up other issues or hitches in the overall cycling of the gun. Interestingly, with the CZ P01 back from the gunsmith, I'm now able to feel the "grit" during feeding of most bullets. Since the gunsmithing, the FHT's no longer "stick" or chatter up the feed ramp. The DT's are glass smooth.
Feed Reliability -- DT's are extremely reliable. In 200rds fired, not a single jam; no feeling of hesitation during cycling in any way. When test-fed through a Kahr PM9 that's been giving me cycling woes, a magazine's worth cycled through the PM9 very well. (Hardly a scientific test, but a strong indicator, given that the PM9 has been a jam-o-matic extraordinaire the past few months.) I have put triple the number of FHT's through the P01, as compared to the DT's. I like the FHT's quite a bit and primarily due to the reliability have been carrying these daily in this pistol. Good stuff.
Ejection -- Both the DT's and the FHT's eject strongly and smoothly. Empty cases for both land in a small circle about 7ft away. The DT's, of course, have a bit more punch, hence they eject more sharply. No issues with either.
Blast & Flame -- The FHT's are flame throwers, and that's a fact. The fireball at 1yd off the muzzle is a good 1yd in diameter, give or take. The DT's throw a much smaller, dimmer ball of flame. Blast in the DT's appears to be about half the size of the FHT's. Either is manageable during single shots or multi-shot strings at 7yds, 10yds and 45ft.
Recoil & Muzzle Flip -- As compared to range rounds of any flavor I have ever shot in any pistol, the FHT's have a noticeably heavier kick. In the CZ P01, muzzle flip is negligible, even more so in my Browning BDM. Very easy to manage. By comparison, though, the DT's are a strong step up the ladder in terms of both kick and flip. There is a heavy recoil that punches like a 230gr +P 45ACP, or harder. Even in the 28oz CZ P01, though, I find it reasonably manageable. Somewhat harder to control, it's still okay. Muzzle flip in the DT is about twice that of the FHT, but still only an inch, two at most. A strong grip and standing "over" the shot becomes a necessity with either of these rounds, in order to ensure follow-up shots are consistent.
Follow-up Shots (ease) -- This is the one factor that has so far kept me from switching to the DT's for daily carry. Follow-up shots are impacted with the DT rounds, given how much harder they kick. They are manageable for brief periods (a few mags' worth), but after 30-40rds it begins to get old. The FHT's are easier to shoot follow-up shots. At 10yds, the FHTs are reasonably easy for me to keep within 3-4" groups when shooting moderately quickly. By comparison, the DT's open up to a bit larger than a hand's span.
Accuracy -- Both the FHT and DT rounds are very accurate. No issues with either. Amazingly, the DT's are the most-accurate rounds I have shot through either the CZ P01 or the Browning BDM, bar none. In single-shot tests at 7yds, 10yds and 45ft, the DT's are consistently where aimed. The FHTs tend to be a little off, I'm guessing this is mostly due to my flinching in anticipation of the huge blast/flame these puppies crank out.
General Availability -- Neither is available in your corner store. At least, not at my corner shops. Crappy neighborhood, I guess. The online vendor Cheaper Than Dirt carries the Federal Hydrashok Tactical 124gr +P+. The DoubleTap +P rounds are available directly from the vendor, online. I have never seen either in any store, nor heard of a store that carries these two specific rounds. Still, I have yet to see either out of stock. Can't say that about many different makes of bullet.
Price -- The FHT's cost $170 per case of 500rds, at Cheaper Than Dirt. The DoubleTap rounds cost $190 per case of 500rds, or about the same price. Plus freight, of course, which is about $15 per 500 or so. The price isn't cheap, that's for sure. But this is first class ammo, IMO. Reliable, consistent, accurate. Seems like a perfect match for a carry weapon, given my criteria.
Overall -- Both are exceptional. Perfect feeding, perfect reliability during cycling. More blast and much more flame from the FHT's over the DT's. Both are manageable in a carry pistol, though the DT's tax my strength and attention span more quickly, given how much harder they kick. But then, I'm not the gym rat I once was.
What Would I Carry? -- Well, I actually am carrying the FHT's, daily. But I would not hesitate to carry either. If ultimate feed reliability was the sole criterion, I would pick the DT rounds every time. Best for me? It's a toss-up. Both are exceptional, IMO.

Enjoy.

- Michael

whitestone · December 11th, 2006, 10:42 AM

Terrific as usual. A great view of both products' strengths. Both companies should consider making your their virtual sales rep.

As to reducing muzzle flip, you may want to try a stainless steel guide rod for your P-01. The stock plastic guide rod makes it slightly easier to carry, but adding some weight up front makes the pistol more controllable.

randytulsa2 · December 11th, 2006, 10:54 AM

That was an excellent writeup. Straightforward and unbiased.

Will you test all my potential carry ammo in all calibers for me so I don't have to?

ccw9mm · December 11th, 2006, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitestone

As to reducing muzzle flip, you may want to try a stainless steel guide rod for your P-01.

Got one. Works very well.

P95Carry · December 11th, 2006, 11:22 AM

Great work Michael and thanks once more for a well presented review.

myusername · December 11th, 2006, 01:54 PM

do you know what bullet DT is using in these? I know they offer different ones such as Gold Dot and Golden Sabre but have seen their JHP offerings with no mention of whose bullet is in it.

srfl · December 11th, 2006, 03:50 PM

Very nice review...thanks for sharing.

I'm a big fan of Mike McNett and Double Tap....partially due to his having "resurrected" (of sorts) the 10mm cartridge by loading this great round to its true potential.

ccw9mm · December 11th, 2006, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myusername

do you know what bullet DT is using in these?

Per the DoubleTap web site ... Speer Gold Dot.

retsupt99 · December 11th, 2006, 10:55 PM

Thanks for the info...that took some time...

ret

myusername · December 12th, 2006, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccw9mm

Per the DoubleTap web site ... Speer Gold Dot.

Thanks.

ccw9mm · March 25th, 2007, 09:04 PM

Have decided to start carrying the DoubleTap JHP 124gr +P's, in the CZ P01. Bought a thousand rounds recently and am consuming the last of the FHST's.

I love these DoubleTap rounds. So smooth and reliable. If I can get them to work in the Kahr PM9, then I'll have a single load for everything. (No range time, recently.) Of course, 500 ft-lbs and 1400 fps will be a handful in the PM9, but what else have I got to do on a Saturday morning?

shovel · March 31st, 2007, 10:03 AM

Thats good info for us all. We should all test what works great in our hand guns. I have tried many,many makes of ammo. What a bullet will do when it hits its target, is my main concern. Have to say here, The corbons,federal hydr-shoks are way up on my list,as far as stoping power. As far as feeding through my PM9, Have not had any jam after the break in time of 200 rounds. Seems to shoot any quality bullet without any trouble. Have shot over a 600 rounds after break in, not a single jam.

clarkston_cz · July 3rd, 2007, 08:59 PM

I've had similar problems with PowRball ammo in my RAMI.

Promising myself that I would give 147s a try once they were boosted in velocity. While other brands remain sub-sonic ,and I think less than optimum for my needs. I selected the 147 gr Gold Dot for my new 75B Stainless.

I have now went to using the Double Tap ammo in all my handguns..with great results!

falcon1 · July 3rd, 2007, 09:55 PM

Thanks for the report...good info!

Colin · July 3rd, 2007, 11:21 PM

The only JHP I can seem to get here regularly is Remingtion JHP in 115gr and 230 gr. Any opinions on them? They work nicely in my guns.

December 11th, 2006, 08:20 AM	#1
ccw9mm VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Oregon USA Posts: 9,022	9mm Ammo Comparison Report -- DoubleTap JHP +P vs. Federal Hydrashok Tactical JHP +P+ This is a direct comparison of two excellent 9mm JHP rounds. If you're looking for good carry ammo for your pistol, you might want to consider either of these two bullets. The comparison, below, was done during a range session back in October, at which time I directly compared these two different makes of ammo in a single gun. Some folks might find this interesting, if considering either one of these rounds. Pistols Used -- CZ P01 9mm with an after-market stainless guide rod; and a Browning BDM 9mm, also with a stainless guide rod. For the purposes of this comparison, I will focus on the CZ P01. I did run some ammo through the BDM as well, but most of the comments here are related to use in the P01. Ammo Compared -- Federal Hydrashok Tactical 9mm JHP 124gr +P+. Federal has been around a long time. They are strongly represented amongst the police community, for duty weapons. They make several reliable, strong loads. While the FHP +P+ isn't generally found at your corner store, Federals can be found most anywhere. Fairly consistent across a dozen boxes, in terms of the case, the length, the crimping. DoubleTap 9mm JHP 124gr +P. DT is a relatively new manufacturer. Their equipment is new. In a discussion with one of the DT folks, it was clear that their new equipment, calibration and attention to detail has paid off with highly-accurate and reliable ammunition. Random visual comparisons of samples from each box of the DT's shows little-to-no variation between bullets; a caliper measurement would probably show this. Criteria for Caring/Judging -- Reliability of cycling; consistency from one bullet to another; practicality for sufficient training to support daily carry. If ammo can't do that well, it's outta here (in terms of consideration for my own carry piece). Overall Length -- The shortest ammo I've used in these two guns is the CorBon Pow'r Ball. It won't feed at all. Most range ammo I use is of similar OAL, and generally feeds well. The FHT is longer still, by a margin, and is quite a bit better-feeding and more reliable. And, finally, the DT rounds are noticeably longer than everything, and marginally longer than the FHT rounds ... and they have been 100% reliable. Noticeably smoother-feeding, cycling. Coincidents? Perhaps but, FWIW, I have noticed a correlation between shorter rounds and increased cycling failures in each of three pistols, most notably the BDM and a Kahr PM9 I'm reviewing. My theory is that this OAL difference is a primary contributor to the extremely smooth and reliable feeding of the DT rounds, at least in my two pistols. Case Lips -- The DT rounds have a much tighter case lip, where the edge is tighter against the bullet. Running a finger over the FHT case lips allows the fingernail to easily catch on the lip; whereas, doing the same on the DT rounds shows the lips to be crimped much more tightly to the side of the bullet. Many folks have mentioned that rifle velocities can be impacted by tighter or looser lips. Perhaps this explains part of the heavier kick and speeds of the DT rounds over the FHT, as well as some of the feed reliability. Does it impact cycling reliability? Logically, it should; but, I don't know for certain. Feed Smoothness -- DT's were extremely smooth and clean feeding. Noticeably smoother than the FHT's. Both are head and shoulders above the smoothness of other rounds I have tried. Smooth is good, as it helps show up other issues or hitches in the overall cycling of the gun. Interestingly, with the CZ P01 back from the gunsmith, I'm now able to feel the "grit" during feeding of most bullets. Since the gunsmithing, the FHT's no longer "stick" or chatter up the feed ramp. The DT's are glass smooth. Feed Reliability -- DT's are extremely reliable. In 200rds fired, not a single jam; no feeling of hesitation during cycling in any way. When test-fed through a Kahr PM9 that's been giving me cycling woes, a magazine's worth cycled through the PM9 very well. (Hardly a scientific test, but a strong indicator, given that the PM9 has been a jam-o-matic extraordinaire the past few months.) I have put triple the number of FHT's through the P01, as compared to the DT's. I like the FHT's quite a bit and primarily due to the reliability have been carrying these daily in this pistol. Good stuff. Ejection -- Both the DT's and the FHT's eject strongly and smoothly. Empty cases for both land in a small circle about 7ft away. The DT's, of course, have a bit more punch, hence they eject more sharply. No issues with either. Blast & Flame -- The FHT's are flame throwers, and that's a fact. The fireball at 1yd off the muzzle is a good 1yd in diameter, give or take. The DT's throw a much smaller, dimmer ball of flame. Blast in the DT's appears to be about half the size of the FHT's. Either is manageable during single shots or multi-shot strings at 7yds, 10yds and 45ft. Recoil & Muzzle Flip -- As compared to range rounds of any flavor I have ever shot in any pistol, the FHT's have a noticeably heavier kick. In the CZ P01, muzzle flip is negligible, even more so in my Browning BDM. Very easy to manage. By comparison, though, the DT's are a strong step up the ladder in terms of both kick and flip. There is a heavy recoil that punches like a 230gr +P 45ACP, or harder. Even in the 28oz CZ P01, though, I find it reasonably manageable. Somewhat harder to control, it's still okay. Muzzle flip in the DT is about twice that of the FHT, but still only an inch, two at most. A strong grip and standing "over" the shot becomes a necessity with either of these rounds, in order to ensure follow-up shots are consistent. Follow-up Shots (ease) -- This is the one factor that has so far kept me from switching to the DT's for daily carry. Follow-up shots are impacted with the DT rounds, given how much harder they kick. They are manageable for brief periods (a few mags' worth), but after 30-40rds it begins to get old. The FHT's are easier to shoot follow-up shots. At 10yds, the FHTs are reasonably easy for me to keep within 3-4" groups when shooting moderately quickly. By comparison, the DT's open up to a bit larger than a hand's span. Accuracy -- Both the FHT and DT rounds are very accurate. No issues with either. Amazingly, the DT's are the most-accurate rounds I have shot through either the CZ P01 or the Browning BDM, bar none. In single-shot tests at 7yds, 10yds and 45ft, the DT's are consistently where aimed. The FHTs tend to be a little off, I'm guessing this is mostly due to my flinching in anticipation of the huge blast/flame these puppies crank out. General Availability -- Neither is available in your corner store. At least, not at my corner shops. Crappy neighborhood, I guess. The online vendor Cheaper Than Dirt carries the Federal Hydrashok Tactical 124gr +P+. The DoubleTap +P rounds are available directly from the vendor, online. I have never seen either in any store, nor heard of a store that carries these two specific rounds. Still, I have yet to see either out of stock. Can't say that about many different makes of bullet. Price -- The FHT's cost $170 per case of 500rds, at Cheaper Than Dirt. The DoubleTap rounds cost $190 per case of 500rds, or about the same price. Plus freight, of course, which is about $15 per 500 or so. The price isn't cheap, that's for sure. But this is first class ammo, IMO. Reliable, consistent, accurate. Seems like a perfect match for a carry weapon, given my criteria. Overall -- Both are exceptional. Perfect feeding, perfect reliability during cycling. More blast and much more flame from the FHT's over the DT's. Both are manageable in a carry pistol, though the DT's tax my strength and attention span more quickly, given how much harder they kick. But then, I'm not the gym rat I once was. What Would I Carry? -- Well, I actually am carrying the FHT's, daily. But I would not hesitate to carry either. If ultimate feed reliability was the sole criterion, I would pick the DT rounds every time. Best for me? It's a toss-up. Both are exceptional, IMO. Enjoy. - Michael __________________ Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it. Thoughts: Justifiable self defense. Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims? Beware the fury of an aroused democracy -- D. D. Eisenhower. NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN. Last edited by ccw9mm; December 11th, 2006 at 11:14 AM.. Reason: added note about guide rods; my personal criteria.

December 11th, 2006, 11:22 AM	#5
P95Carry Assistant Administrator Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South West PA Posts: 25,466	Great work Michael and thanks once more for a well presented review. __________________ Chris - P95 NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member. "To own a gun and assume that you are armed is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!." If a BG dies as the result of pointing a gun at me, then he has merely succumbed to an occupational hazard of being a thug

December 11th, 2006, 03:50 PM	#7
srfl VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: FL Posts: 6,871	Very nice review...thanks for sharing. I'm a big fan of Mike McNett and Double Tap....partially due to his having "resurrected" (of sorts) the 10mm cartridge by loading this great round to its true potential. __________________ USAF: Loving Our Obscene Amenities Since 1947

December 11th, 2006, 10:55 PM	#9
retsupt99 VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Central Florida Posts: 24,674	Well Written... Thanks for the info...that took some time... ret __________________ "That I cannot do." "Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks." *********************************** NRA Life Member

March 25th, 2007, 09:04 PM	#11
ccw9mm VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Oregon USA Posts: 9,022	DoubleTap swap Have decided to start carrying the DoubleTap JHP 124gr +P's, in the CZ P01. Bought a thousand rounds recently and am consuming the last of the FHST's. I love these DoubleTap rounds. So smooth and reliable. If I can get them to work in the Kahr PM9, then I'll have a single load for everything. (No range time, recently.) Of course, 500 ft-lbs and 1400 fps will be a handful in the PM9, but what else have I got to do on a Saturday morning? __________________ Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it. Thoughts: Justifiable self defense. Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims? Beware the fury of an aroused democracy -- D. D. Eisenhower. NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

December 11th, 2006, 10:42 AM	#2
whitestone Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 111	Terrific as usual. A great view of both products' strengths. Both companies should consider making your their virtual sales rep. As to reducing muzzle flip, you may want to try a stainless steel guide rod for your P-01. The stock plastic guide rod makes it slightly easier to carry, but adding some weight up front makes the pistol more controllable.

December 11th, 2006, 10:54 AM	#3
randytulsa2 Distinguished Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,539	That was an excellent writeup. Straightforward and unbiased. Will you test all my potential carry ammo in all calibers for me so I don't have to?

December 11th, 2006, 01:54 PM	#6
myusername Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: NOLA Posts: 445	do you know what bullet DT is using in these? I know they offer different ones such as Gold Dot and Golden Sabre but have seen their JHP offerings with no mention of whose bullet is in it.

March 31st, 2007, 10:03 AM	#12
shovel New Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: columbia sc Posts: 13	Good info Thats good info for us all. We should all test what works great in our hand guns. I have tried many,many makes of ammo. What a bullet will do when it hits its target, is my main concern. Have to say here, The corbons,federal hydr-shoks are way up on my list,as far as stoping power. As far as feeding through my PM9, Have not had any jam after the break in time of 200 rounds. Seems to shoot any quality bullet without any trouble. Have shot over a 600 rounds after break in, not a single jam. __________________ Never Bluff, Rid the world of the Bad Guys!

July 3rd, 2007, 08:59 PM	#13
clarkston_cz Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Lewis-Clark Valley Posts: 470	I've had similar problems with PowRball ammo in my RAMI. Promising myself that I would give 147s a try once they were boosted in velocity. While other brands remain sub-sonic ,and I think less than optimum for my needs. I selected the 147 gr Gold Dot for my new 75B Stainless. I have now went to using the Double Tap ammo in all my handguns..with great results! __________________ 'CZimply The Best!" www.czforumsite.info/index.php www.cz-zone.com http://www.angelfire.com/amiga/hakan/czp01.html http://czzone.blogspot.com/

July 3rd, 2007, 09:55 PM	#14
falcon1 VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,120	Thanks for the report...good info!

July 3rd, 2007, 11:21 PM	#15
Colin Distinguished Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Vancouver Posts: 1,713	The only JHP I can seem to get here regularly is Remingtion JHP in 115gr and 230 gr. Any opinions on them? They work nicely in my guns.

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