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Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics Discussion of defensive and concealed carry ammunition, ballisitics and reloading.

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Old February 5th, 2005, 12:29 PM   #41
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Hydra-Shok - They Are Fine

I carry an extra mag of Glaser these days.
I used to always keep my "in chamber" round a Glaser Safety Slug but have since changed away from that.
I understand both the limitations & the advantages of frangible.
Force of habit - "extensively tested reliable feeding" & the fact that I've tested them myself (albeit long ago) has kept me sticking with Glaser over Hydra-Shok. Old habits die hard.
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Old February 5th, 2005, 01:17 PM   #42
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[devil's advocate] QK, I am curious how you would explain to a grand jury why the first round in your mag is of a different variation or design with respect to the remainder of the bullets in the magazine??? [/devil's advocate]

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Old February 5th, 2005, 01:49 PM   #43
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silvercorvette, you're welcome. Below is Doc Robert's recommendations.
http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bi...;f=78;t=000581
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Old February 5th, 2005, 01:54 PM   #44
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FLM great link, thanks for sharing. That .45 cavity (temp) is wicked.

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Old February 5th, 2005, 02:13 PM   #45
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It's my understanding that frangibles have become more common in military training and in certain LEO scenarios - solely because of safety issues. Wouldn't the same reasoning hold for civilian self-defense applications?
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Old February 5th, 2005, 02:18 PM   #46
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Revlar, I am not sure, that is why I am asking. I have heard some people comment that they carry what it is the local PD carries. Take the PD thought one step further, what about carrying in your carry pistol that which your Local SWAT or HRT carries???

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Old February 5th, 2005, 07:41 PM   #47
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Several companies make frangible ammo designed for practice. It's fairly cheap and disintegrates when striking a hard surface, so yes, it's safer. No LE agency that I know of uses frangible ammo for duty. LEOs face many situations where penetration of barriers is needed. Not to mention the PR problems of using such ammo. There's a forum for LEOs here. Go ask them.
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Old March 2nd, 2005, 08:59 PM   #48
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Last year, I was able to take a whitetail with the 150 gr. .30-06 round. The resulting devistation was pretty amazing. I happen to live in the same small town where this stuff is produced. During deer season, the local sporting goods store is pretty full of evidence of the rounds effectiveness. The owner started out just making reloads and selling them locally....I've used his stuff for several years. I do think his new rounds are WAY too expensive...but for defensive use, it's well worth the money.

Email him and ask for a copy of his "proff" video....pretty amazing stuff.
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Old March 3rd, 2005, 01:23 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevmullins
Last year, I was able to take a whitetail with the 150 gr. .30-06 round. The resulting devistation was pretty amazing. I happen to live in the same small town where this stuff is produced. During deer season, the local sporting goods store is pretty full of evidence of the rounds effectiveness. The owner started out just making reloads and selling them locally....I've used his stuff for several years. I do think his new rounds are WAY too expensive...but for defensive use, it's well worth the money.
We saw this ammunition at the SHOT Show and while it looked like it would be effective in a defensive situation, the resulting fragmented round (mostly very small particles and "dustlike" material) doesn't look like something I would want to use on an animal I was going to eat. I like venison, but grit (not grits) is normally avoided in my diet. Does the fragmented round in reality make the mess that the display in their marketing materials?
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Old March 3rd, 2005, 02:01 AM   #50
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Ok, I know this post took a bit of a turn, but Ammo Lab did some testing on Extreme Shock Ammo..yeah...

Quote:
Originally Posted by David DiFabio
We have tested the 9mm Extreme Shock Explosive Entry Fang Face and Air Freedom rounds as made by the Mullins Brothers of Mullins Ammunition. Unlike their standard 9mm jhp +p loading which was tested using the Remington 115gr component bullets the EE and AF rounds produce very different results from the result we usually see from top of the pack handgun ammunition products.

Prior to the testing Jeff Mullins & I corresponded me via email and he informed me that they would provide the ammunition for our own internal tests provided we did not publish the test results as according to their own internal research the tests using properly prepared and calibrated ordnance gelatin would not fully represent his products claims and capabilities. We chose to decline and purchased the ammo independently although Jeff did mail me a CD full of product information and the video of a board reportedly being killed with a .380 EE product.

Oddly enough although we have purchased the EE and AF rounds from three separate retail sources for comparison the bullets do not in fact look like the ones shown in the photos here: http://www.extremeshockusa.com/cgist...fo.html&setup=

The bullets shown on the web page look very similar in jacketing style to one the late Charlie Kelsey's patented Grabber bullets but the delivered products have a different jacketing cut and style.

From the G17 test pistol the 9MM124FF 124gr loading averaged 1,094fps for the five rounds tested and two and five bullets impacted the test media in a side-ward manner resulting in immediate and nearly complete bullet construction failure and the deepest fragment measured .04" and penetrated to 4.6". The remaining three rounds averaged deepest fragment penetrations of 7.1" and the largest of these fragments was .06".

From the G17 test pistol the 9MM85AFR 85gr loading averaged 1,487fps for the five rounds tested and all five loads impacted 1.9" below POA using our hydraulic rest system at 7 yards. In properly prepared and calibrated ordnance gelatin without any barriers the two test rounds averaged 4.6" of penetration with a very short and abrupt wound channel very closely resembling the initial wound channel of the Double Tap 135gr jhp 10mm loadings we were also testing that day with the obvious loss of the remaining 4.4-5.2" of wound channel volume. To test the anti-penetration capabilities of the AF ammunition we then mounted a 14"x14"x18 gage cold rolled steel test panel 3" in front of the gelatin test media. Three out of three rounds tested penetrated through each 18g steel panel and average gelatin penetration was 3.7" with the vast majority of the bullet becoming fragmenting into a thick powder like form.

In the interest of disclosure the tested ammunition was purchased online from Kieslers for while they were "dumping" the products for $3-$5 for each 5 rd package in early 2004 http://www.kieslersonline.com/onlinestore.asp
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