Thoughts about 9mm - Page 2

exit42 · January 10th, 2007, 10:01 PM

My MK9 will shoot anything, but I carry Federal Hydra-Shok+P+124s.

bh153dc · January 11th, 2007, 03:22 AM

+1 on the Corbon DPX if your 19 likes 'em. Expensive, yeah, but man they get the JOB done.

gotammo · January 11th, 2007, 09:50 AM

shoot many, pick one don't concern yourself with weight if your gun won't shoot it don't use it.
I shoot 147gr because my gun doesn't like anything lighter so I don't like anything lighter.
Leave the ballistics to the manufactures shoot what works.

BSMART · January 11th, 2007, 01:46 PM

Really, any of the high end jacketed bullets will work well. Like everyone else said, pick one that goes bang every time and FEEDS well in your gun.

Personally I shoot corbon or golden sabers. One gun likes the Corbon, the other likes the golden sabers.

Tangle · January 11th, 2007, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSMART

...Personally I shoot corbon or golden sabers. One gun likes the Corbon, the other likes the golden sabers.

Just for my curiosity and enlightenment, what gun likes which one?

Thanks!

dfoster9 · January 11th, 2007, 02:16 PM

With all the info. on this forum, if you still haven't gone out and got you some boxes of the top 4, I think you're just stuck in the advertising vortex. There are numerous reports, reviews, and comparisons to make a resonable choice. There is more than enough info in this forum alone to create an ammo bible. I think I speak for the masses when I say we can put this one to bed. As said by many, many, (1) Reliability (2) Functionality, (3)anything else

Vermicious_Canid · January 12th, 2007, 07:54 PM

I carry 147 grain Speer GoldDots.

duracles · January 13th, 2007, 01:06 AM

I have heard mention that the 147 gr. doesn't perform well. Does anyone know what that is about, or is it another myth? I went with 147 gr. but 127 doesn't sound bad either. I just need to buy a bunch and go to the range and see what works best.

Stephen A. Camp · January 13th, 2007, 01:58 AM

Hello. The bad reputation with 147's seems to have come from the performance of the early generation of this weight bullet. As best as I remember, the 147's original aim was to provide accuracy at extended distances relative to the HK MP5 smg. As you likely know, hollow point bullets are often among the more accurate and the original intention was to provide accuracy with expansion a secondary consideration, if any.

After the Miami Fiasco in which a killer was shot, receiving a "non-survivable wound" from an FBI agent's 115-gr. 9mm STHP, terminal performance protocols were developed by the FBI for various calibers...including 9mm.

Penetration requirements of 12" in 10% ballistic gelatin were easily met by the 147grain JHP by not so easily by the aggressive 115-gr. JHP's of the same era.

The early 147-gr. JHP bullets often expanded sporadically if at all, but the bullet manufacturers reworked the design for this bullet weight and as the saying goes, "the worm has turned." I have not been a fan of the 147-gr. JHP in 9mm, but recent informal tests of currently offered loads have forced me to re-examine my position. Though I still prefer faster rounds like 115-gr. DPX +P or Winchester 127-gr. +P+, I have yet to see a Golden Saber, Winchester Ranger, or Gold Dot in the 147-gr. weight fail to expand.

I would not be afraid to use these for serious purpose.

Such might not have been the case ten or fifteen years ago, but in my opinion, the 147-gr. 9mm hollow point is now a viable option.

Best.

srfl · January 13th, 2007, 02:37 AM

I prefer a good 124 - 127 grain +P or +P+ JHPs.

I really like Double Tap Ammo, but in fairness, I haven't tried it in 9mm. My current 9mm ammo consists of Speer Gold Dot 124 grain standard pressure and Winchester Ranger-T 124 grain +P JHP (RA9124TP).

sixgun · January 13th, 2007, 04:06 PM

Accuracy and reliability. I have a springfield xdsc 9mm. And it works with remington golden sabers in 124 +p loadings.

Sixgun

cmt157 · January 17th, 2007, 01:02 AM

I'm in Law Enforcement and about two weeks ago a friend of mine while we were at work encountered an armed thug. I had wondered about the 147Grn. round, as thats what our department issues for carry. My friend took a .357 Rd. to his chest from a .357 revolver the thug was carrying. Thank God his vest did its job and stopped it, although he had some major bruising. He returned fire, hit the guy in the hip, and in the chest. The 147 did its job, the guy went down, and didn't get back up. He was sent to meet his maker. The guy was wearing a jacket, with a shirt underneath, and the 147 penetrated with no problem. I thank God it did, and he had his vest on, (and it worked). I have since improved my confidence of the 147Grn. I hear alot of other guys in the dept. complain about the ammo we carry, but it proved itself a couple weeks ago.

Gary Brommeland · January 17th, 2007, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmt157

My friend took a .357 Rd. to his chest from a .357 revolver the thug was carrying. Thank God his vest did its job and stopped it, although he had some major bruising. He returned fire, hit the guy in the hip, and in the chest. The 147 did its job, the guy went down, and didn't get back up. He was sent to meet his maker.

That's how it's supposed to happen. I am REAL glad to hear that your buddy is OK. (Oh, and welcome aboard!!!)

sixgun · January 19th, 2007, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmt157

I'm in Law Enforcement and about two weeks ago a friend of mine while we were at work encountered an armed thug. I had wondered about the 147Grn. round, as thats what our department issues for carry. My friend took a .357 Rd. to his chest from a .357 revolver the thug was carrying. Thank God his vest did its job and stopped it, although he had some major bruising. He returned fire, hit the guy in the hip, and in the chest. The 147 did its job, the guy went down, and didn't get back up. He was sent to meet his maker. The guy was wearing a jacket, with a shirt underneath, and the 147 penetrated with no problem. I thank God it did, and he had his vest on, (and it worked). I have since improved my confidence of the 147Grn. I hear alot of other guys in the dept. complain about the ammo we carry, but it proved itself a couple weeks ago.

That proves the 9mm is an effective round.

P95Carry · January 19th, 2007, 11:00 PM

Quote:

That proves the 9mm is an effective round.

Old ''pedantic'' here

.......... "That proves the 9mm can be an effective round."

I carry 9mm and place plenty enough faith in it with good placement but I am still aware that no caliber carries any guarantees! This result was tho pleasantly reassuring

js · January 19th, 2007, 11:23 PM

After trying several defensive loads, it was clear that my glock 26 shot more accurately with rem golden sabers.

slimjim · January 20th, 2007, 12:50 AM

The 147gr Winchester Ranger-T has performed exceptional in gelatin tests. Glad to hear it worked as designed in that real-life situation previously posted. In shorter barrel 9s I prefer using 124gr +p loads. I currently carry Ranger T 124gr +p in my PM9. Although, I would not be adverse to using 147gr loads (GDs or Rangers) esp. in longer barrel guns. The following info was taken from Tactical Forums:

The following loads all demonstrate outstanding terminal performance and can be considered acceptable for duty/self-defense use:

9 mm:
Barnes XPB 105 & 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP (53617)
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP (53619)
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)

From StoppingPower.net:

10% Ballistic Gelatin Tests for:
Winchester 9mm 147 gr Ranger RA9T

Testing Platform:
Glock 19

Barrier:
Four Layers of Denim

TEST RESULTS:

Round # 1:
Penetration: 11.875”
Recovered Weight: 150.4 gr.
Expansion*: .646 cal.

* Expansion measured at widest point.

BikerRN · January 20th, 2007, 01:50 AM

My three 9's are loaded with either Corbon 125 grain +p's or 115 grain +P DPX.

The DPX has great barrier penetration and the 125's seem to be the cat's meow if you aren't dealing with barriers.

Biker

sixgun · January 20th, 2007, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P95Carry

Old ''pedantic'' here

.......... "That proves the 9mm can be an effective round."

I carry 9mm and place plenty enough faith in it with good placement but I am still aware that no caliber carries any guarantees! This result was tho pleasantly reassuring

Yes Chris thats right can be. We all know that handgun rounds regardless of caliber are marganal stoppers and shot placement is the key. Thats why we practice and practice some more. Stay safe.

Sixgun

Hollowp84 · January 25th, 2007, 06:07 PM

I Carry a Baby Eagle 9mm. Im kinda in a bind, so any input would help..My gun seems to be "Ammo Picky"..trust me yall, ive tried em all. from GD 124g,Golden Saber 147,Hornady TAP 124,Fed. Hydra-Shok 124, To Win. SXT Supremes,ETC. My Main problem is: When i pull the slide back to load it, the bullet gets jammed!! not good at all. I narrowed it down to Hydrashoks, due to ballistics & what i THOUGHT would feed proper @ first. Some feed well & reliable, TAPS get jammed everytime (theyre a little shorter) But Still !! Dont get me wrong here, If my gun is breached & i put in the clip & quick release the slide...everything works!! But, if it came down to it, I doubt an intruder would give me time to do all that!!! Im a Newbie, & am learning, but i think it would be more helpful to find out answers sooner, rather than the hard way......Could it be the slide,barrel,magazine, or the ammo like i started with?

January 10th, 2007, 10:01 PM	#21
exit42 Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Grapevine, TX Posts: 199	My MK9 will shoot anything, but I carry Federal Hydra-Shok+P+124s. __________________ ...one jagged hole!

January 11th, 2007, 03:22 AM	#22
bh153dc Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: anywhere there is an H&K Posts: 129	+1 on the Corbon DPX if your 19 likes 'em. Expensive, yeah, but man they get the JOB done. __________________ "THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman" Thomas Paine " The Crisis "

January 11th, 2007, 02:16 PM	#26
dfoster9 Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: san antonio Posts: 27	With all the info. on this forum, if you still haven't gone out and got you some boxes of the top 4, I think you're just stuck in the advertising vortex. There are numerous reports, reviews, and comparisons to make a resonable choice. There is more than enough info in this forum alone to create an ammo bible. I think I speak for the masses when I say we can put this one to bed. As said by many, many, (1) Reliability (2) Functionality, (3)anything else __________________ Kenny G is allowed to live because Chuck Norris doesn't kill women. http://www.chucknorrisfacts.com

January 13th, 2007, 01:06 AM	#28
duracles Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 87	I have heard mention that the 147 gr. doesn't perform well. Does anyone know what that is about, or is it another myth? I went with 147 gr. but 127 doesn't sound bad either. I just need to buy a bunch and go to the range and see what works best. __________________ "The best compliment to the Warrior is that others feel safe while you are around." I would add especially if they REALLY ARE safe when you are around.

January 13th, 2007, 01:58 AM	#29
Stephen A. Camp Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Southwest Posts: 466	Hello. The bad reputation with 147's seems to have come from the performance of the early generation of this weight bullet. As best as I remember, the 147's original aim was to provide accuracy at extended distances relative to the HK MP5 smg. As you likely know, hollow point bullets are often among the more accurate and the original intention was to provide accuracy with expansion a secondary consideration, if any. After the Miami Fiasco in which a killer was shot, receiving a "non-survivable wound" from an FBI agent's 115-gr. 9mm STHP, terminal performance protocols were developed by the FBI for various calibers...including 9mm. Penetration requirements of 12" in 10% ballistic gelatin were easily met by the 147grain JHP by not so easily by the aggressive 115-gr. JHP's of the same era. The early 147-gr. JHP bullets often expanded sporadically if at all, but the bullet manufacturers reworked the design for this bullet weight and as the saying goes, "the worm has turned." I have not been a fan of the 147-gr. JHP in 9mm, but recent informal tests of currently offered loads have forced me to re-examine my position. Though I still prefer faster rounds like 115-gr. DPX +P or Winchester 127-gr. +P+, I have yet to see a Golden Saber, Winchester Ranger, or Gold Dot in the 147-gr. weight fail to expand. I would not be afraid to use these for serious purpose. Such might not have been the case ten or fifteen years ago, but in my opinion, the 147-gr. 9mm hollow point is now a viable option. Best. __________________ Drop by www.hipowersandhandguns.com and http://hipowers-handguns.blogspot.com/

January 11th, 2007, 09:50 AM	#23
gotammo Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: CT Posts: 438	shoot many, pick one don't concern yourself with weight if your gun won't shoot it don't use it. I shoot 147gr because my gun doesn't like anything lighter so I don't like anything lighter. Leave the ballistics to the manufactures shoot what works.

January 11th, 2007, 01:46 PM	#24
BSMART Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: UTAH Posts: 83	Really, any of the high end jacketed bullets will work well. Like everyone else said, pick one that goes bang every time and FEEDS well in your gun. Personally I shoot corbon or golden sabers. One gun likes the Corbon, the other likes the golden sabers.

January 12th, 2007, 07:54 PM	#27
Vermicious_Canid Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: USA Posts: 36	I carry 147 grain Speer GoldDots.

January 13th, 2007, 02:37 AM	#30
srfl VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: FL Posts: 6,871	I prefer a good 124 - 127 grain +P or +P+ JHPs. I really like Double Tap Ammo, but in fairness, I haven't tried it in 9mm. My current 9mm ammo consists of Speer Gold Dot 124 grain standard pressure and Winchester Ranger-T 124 grain +P JHP (RA9124TP). __________________ USAF: Loving Our Obscene Amenities Since 1947

January 13th, 2007, 04:06 PM	#31
sixgun Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: indiana usa Posts: 807	Accuracy and reliability. I have a springfield xdsc 9mm. And it works with remington golden sabers in 124 +p loadings. Sixgun

January 17th, 2007, 01:02 AM	#32
cmt157 New Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Georgia Posts: 1	9mm 147Grn. Ranger I'm in Law Enforcement and about two weeks ago a friend of mine while we were at work encountered an armed thug. I had wondered about the 147Grn. round, as thats what our department issues for carry. My friend took a .357 Rd. to his chest from a .357 revolver the thug was carrying. Thank God his vest did its job and stopped it, although he had some major bruising. He returned fire, hit the guy in the hip, and in the chest. The 147 did its job, the guy went down, and didn't get back up. He was sent to meet his maker. The guy was wearing a jacket, with a shirt underneath, and the 147 penetrated with no problem. I thank God it did, and he had his vest on, (and it worked). I have since improved my confidence of the 147Grn. I hear alot of other guys in the dept. complain about the ammo we carry, but it proved itself a couple weeks ago.

January 19th, 2007, 11:23 PM	#36
js Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: kansas Posts: 298	After trying several defensive loads, it was clear that my glock 26 shot more accurately with rem golden sabers. __________________ Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything Wyatt Earp

January 20th, 2007, 12:50 AM	#37
slimjim Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 660	The 147gr Winchester Ranger-T has performed exceptional in gelatin tests. Glad to hear it worked as designed in that real-life situation previously posted. In shorter barrel 9s I prefer using 124gr +p loads. I currently carry Ranger T 124gr +p in my PM9. Although, I would not be adverse to using 147gr loads (GDs or Rangers) esp. in longer barrel guns. The following info was taken from Tactical Forums: The following loads all demonstrate outstanding terminal performance and can be considered acceptable for duty/self-defense use: 9 mm: Barnes XPB 105 & 115 gr JHP (copper bullet) Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1) Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP (53617) Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP) Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P) Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA) Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5) Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2) Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC) Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP (53619) Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T) From StoppingPower.net: 10% Ballistic Gelatin Tests for: Winchester 9mm 147 gr Ranger RA9T Testing Platform: Glock 19 Barrier: Four Layers of Denim TEST RESULTS: Round # 1: Penetration: 11.875” Recovered Weight: 150.4 gr. Expansion: .646 cal. Expansion measured at widest point. Last edited by slimjim; January 20th, 2007 at 12:57 AM..

January 20th, 2007, 01:50 AM	#38
BikerRN VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: State of Discombobulation Posts: 4,034	My three 9's are loaded with either Corbon 125 grain +p's or 115 grain +P DPX. The DPX has great barrier penetration and the 125's seem to be the cat's meow if you aren't dealing with barriers. Biker

January 25th, 2007, 06:07 PM	#40
Hollowp84 New Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Montgomery,TX Posts: 7	I Carry a Baby Eagle 9mm. Im kinda in a bind, so any input would help..My gun seems to be "Ammo Picky"..trust me yall, ive tried em all. from GD 124g,Golden Saber 147,Hornady TAP 124,Fed. Hydra-Shok 124, To Win. SXT Supremes,ETC. My Main problem is: When i pull the slide back to load it, the bullet gets jammed!! not good at all. I narrowed it down to Hydrashoks, due to ballistics & what i THOUGHT would feed proper @ first. Some feed well & reliable, TAPS get jammed everytime (theyre a little shorter) But Still !! Dont get me wrong here, If my gun is breached & i put in the clip & quick release the slide...everything works!! But, if it came down to it, I doubt an intruder would give me time to do all that!!! Im a Newbie, & am learning, but i think it would be more helpful to find out answers sooner, rather than the hard way......Could it be the slide,barrel,magazine, or the ammo like i started with?

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